Hyper car hybrid

[Woodfie]

The other option is 2 Q211 motors in the front, double the torque and they are not so big...

Have locked differential in a Q111, a long time back, as was running as a pusher in an 1999 prius NHW10.

[Woodfie]

Although they nest better with one motor fwd and one rear, reverse rotation on one would not be sustainable, as oil splash is fwd direction only...an oil pump could be a possible solution...

[evbuilder]

The out3.csv data is looking really good, do you plan to tabulate it as live data and maybe highlight in red/yellow/green as the data bytes change?
You have done some great work there, it will be a very powerful tool for in depth hacking.
Which C compiler tool change do you use?
First look, the data looks very good. Does it align with what we have unravelled so far?

All good ideas! I just typed "gcc SnifferParser.c" on my Mac. I think clang was the built in compiler that handled it! I got an a.out file. Definitely no toolchain, just the compiler. It is such generic C code I imagine it would work pretty much anywhere.

Check out https://github.com/evbuilder/SnifferPar ... 20Captures for tonights short test with a real car.
Unfortunately the PHV has 140bytes MTH, so overflowed the FIFO buffer. Messages got cut in two. All the data is there though.

[daleread]

Have locked differential in a Q211, a long time back, as was running as a pusher in an 1999 Prius NHW10.

That solution is brilliant

For bigger power in the front use the Nissan Leaf setup.
Or 2 Q211 next to each other connected in the centre with the drive shafts and half the diff welded each side?
2 Q211's would keep the Inverter happy too.
WDYT?

[Woodfie]

For bigger power in the front use the Nissan Leaf setup.
Or 2 Q211 next to each other connected in the centre with the drive shafts and half the diff welded each side?
2 Q211's would keep the Inverter happy too.
WDYT?

Considered a Nissan Leaf , have a car for parts, but in the Sirus space restricted if I retain the Mk3 cortina front end in some form.
My path is to use a Q211 or a smart fortwo unit which is also nicely compact..and currently ( no pun intended) driven from a Nissan leaf gen2 inverter.

Trying to get my head around the half diff welded each side, as the two separate spider gear sets would have to rotate in unison...

But I would lock each side and blank off, then run each motor on equal torque request. For extra experimental handling possibly use steering wheel position to increase the drive on the outer wheel of a turn...not sure how that would pan out, could be exciting.

[Woodfie]

The Lexus gs450h inverter would handle one Q211 on mg1 drive, and one Q211 on mg1 drive.

The Gen 3 prius if 50kw is a doable amount maybe hard on the mg1 IGBTs, as seem a bit less space in the monolithic block. Need to handle the current required, maybe others on the forum know what the mg1 drive can do. Think was 10kw on NHW10, 15kw on NHW11, maybe 18kw on NHW20, and be something more perhaps on ZVW30 or gen 3.

[daleread]

Trying to get my head around the half diff welded each side, as the two separate spider gear sets would have to rotate in unison...

But I would lock each side and blank off, then run each motor on equal torque request. For extra experimental handling possibly use steering wheel position to increase the drive on the outer wheel of a turn...not sure how that would pan out, could be exciting.

Maybe put two motors next to each other, leave the diffs open, and connect the two 'inner' drive shafts together.
It would the work like a normal open diff but with two drive motors (MGR's).

I think the Prius MG1 can deliver enough power for the MGR.
Damien parallel'd the the two output stages together in his mother board conversion to drive a bigger motor

https://openinverter.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius_Gen3_Board

near to the end of the article, "Parallel MG1 and MG2 on a single motor"

He also did an experiment with 200A? amps out of the inverter,

[Woodfie]

Maybe put two motors next to each other, leave the diffs open, and connect the two 'inner' drive shafts together.
It would the work like a normal open diff but with two drive motors (MGR's).

That would work , and yes if 200A on MG1, would seem okay..

Back to unscrambling the 100 and 120 thingys in the HTM and MTH.
Missed the opportunity to sniff the gen3 Prius yesterday, hopefully in the next day or two....

[Woodfie]

On Damien's yaris test video ,was on MG2, not MG1,
So not sure if they are the same, indications were that maybe smaller...

[daleread]

On Damien's Yaris test video ,was on MG2, not MG1,
So not sure if they are the same, indications were that maybe smaller...

Yes MG1 is smaller than MG2, but if they are paralleled together and then drive 2 Q211's the power might? be shared?

Gen 3, MG1=43kW, MG2=60kW == 103kW
Q211 = 50kw, x2 =100kW

So maybe....

But 600lb/ft, 810Nm each!


https://priuschat.com/threads/help-with ... g3.211222/
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... p?t=112680

[Woodfie]

Yes MG1 is smaller than MG2, but if they are paralleled together and then drive 2 Q211's the power might? be shared?




https://priuschat.com/threads/help-with ... g3.211222/
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewt ... p?t=112680

Calculations look okay.

Regarding the Lexus test rig, have just re assembled, (the gen3 prius had stepped into the loom) . There was a question about would one MG run if the other not connected...seems yes and maybe no...

With MG 2 resolver disconnected, there is a whine and MG 1 appears to run the same, at test hv 32v.

With MG 1 resolver disconnected, no whine at first, but while starting MG 2, there is a smaller whine from MG 1, and although MG 2 responds , it is grudgingly , and drawing more current than when both resolvers are connected.... hope that answers the question..

Took a 200mb video, not sure how to display that, at this stage.

[daleread]

Took a 200mb video, not sure how to display that, at this stage.

You should be able to upload it to here
https://rsretro.smugmug.com/upload/7SRnFT/upload
And see it here
https://rsretro.smugmug.com/Kara-430/Upload/

Did you have MG2 at 0% torque while MG1 was running?
Have you tried running one motor, but parallel the wiring to the resolver (sin, cos, not field) so the Inverter 'thinks' it is running 2 motors?
(Or a very brave step, parallel the Inverter outputs and resolvers to one motor...)
It could be the lower voltage, on the limit for the starting motors, maybe 60v? or battery current?

Great work Woodfie.

[daleread]

With MG 2 resolver disconnected, there is a whine and MG 1 appears to run the same, at test hv 32v.

That should be ok then, did you completely disconnect MG2?
maybe take a resolver out of a scrap (something) motor, or find a resolver, and connect it to MG2 to keep the Inverter happy?

https://www.mouser.co.uk/applications/r ... r-control/
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224655946406

[Woodfie]

Hi did the video upload, but couldn't see it , located yo some of your cars I think.

Rechecked the MG1 running , as described last time, and it would seem that either motor resolver disconnected, makes the other Motor harder to rotate, in that an increased current is drawn at same accelerator setting.

Will next try , with the Motor UVW disconnected, ran out of time last season, and sorry not yet back it.

[Woodfie]

Some progress..
Lexus inverter
with MG2 UVW phases disconnected and or resolver, Higher current is drawn on the bus at idle.
MG 1 does not run.

Next..
With Q211 MGR in place of Lexus MG 2,

MG1 appears to function acceptably, and Q211 MGR appears to function acceptably on the accelerator that was Lexus MG2.

So as long as a Motor and resolver connected on each "Channel" it appears okay,

Tomorrow is booked in a sniffing meeting where the sniffing equipment and Evbuilder are under the Prius gen3
Bonnet.

[Woodfie]

Have not been brave enough to cross pollenate the resolvers, or link the phases...
Loaded the video as you suggested, seemed to swallow it , but still couldn't view...tried the UVW connections as still pictures, and can view them ok.

[Woodfie]

Revisiting running a single MG on thd Lexus inverter ,
Yes it would seem it can run by itself....as hoped.

The mechanical connection through the PSD with the input shaft stopped , is where the loading was apparent ,


When

[daleread]

Yes it would seem it can run by itself....as hoped.

Hey, that's perfect. One motor only from the Inverter on MG2?
The 'PSD' load, do you mean the internal gearing and/or locked input shaft??
Your video uploaded perfectly, thankyou, its on this page;
https://rsretro.smugmug.com/Kara-430/Upload/
It takes a bit of time for the RS Retro site to unravel it and post it.
So it works with 1 motor on a Lexus GS? Inverter.
Next is to try the Prius Inverter?
Looking real good.
Thanks, Dale.

[Woodfie]

Yes Power Split Device , is what they refer to the internal planetary gears...Input is locked or resistant to turning by the connection to the present IC engine .....that will be running from a wood gassifier.

The gen 3 sniffing did not occur last evening, as the target vehicle escaped on some holiday sightseeing, much to mine and Evbuilders dis appointment.

Had considered dialing up a taxi gen 4, and doing a 5 minute sniff....ah well soon will get there.

[Woodfie]

Have revisited the Lexus gs450h inverter and the MG2 driving Q211, from a Hylander rear Motor Generator. Using Damien's gs450h board, so I believe the Zombie board will do the same.

Here are the connections that gave fwd and rev .

[Woodfie]

Hi, unsure why some double picture entries occurred, apologies.

[daleread]

Have revisited the Lexus gs450h inverter and the MG2 driving Q211, from a Hylander rear Motor Generator. Using Damien's gs450h board, so I believe the Zombie board will do the same.

Why are the connections so vastly different from the Camry connectors?
https://openinverter.org/wiki/images/9/ ... con-et.png

Did you trace them back inside the inverter?

It does seam odd that Toyota/Lexus use the same type of connectors but with completely different pin connections
or am I missing something here?

A great job to get it working !

[Woodfie]

Hi Dale, plug pin connections from wiki, which was my starting point. Seems that the Camray do have quite different pin connections...

[daleread]

Wow, that is drastically different.
Where did you find the Camry pin out?

[Woodfie]

Wiki Lexus gs450h open inverter.
Just a bit further down the page is this Camry pinout.
Seems all the resolvers are separate, probably for ease of assembly....