EMC proof of the zombieverter

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NOexhaust
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EMC proof of the zombieverter

Post by NOexhaust »

Hello all!

Just registered after some month of reading only. I really appreciate the friendly approach I noticed here!

I´m a mechancial engineer sited in germany and recently, I´m doing a VW T3 conversion with a Tesla SDU (still OEM-Board) and VW MEB- modules. This project needs a VCU that can work with the libal n-BMS and comes with some kind of hardware proof for EMC (mandatory for german road approval)

Does them zombieverter has any EMC proof? Or has anyone have to deal with this point already?

Thx in advance!
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Re: EMC proof of the zombieverter

Post by tom91 »

Zombie does not have EMC cert.

What are you looking to do with the Zombie, none of the components you mention work with it.
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muehlpower
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Re: EMC proof of the zombieverter

Post by muehlpower »

NOexhaust wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2023 1:28 pm EMC (mandatory for german road approval)
why do you think that the EMC is mandatory. The TÜV leaflet 764 says that no EMC is necessary for cars before 2002.
EMV.png
NOexhaust
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Re: EMC proof of the zombieverter

Post by NOexhaust »

You´re right. I simply overread that sentence and focused on how to make sure all components are EMC. I was pretty relieved my TüV- guy accepted that way instead of having to EMC check the whole car. Lets see what §55 STVzO demands..
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Re: EMC proof of the zombieverter

Post by NOexhaust »

tom91 wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2023 1:48 pm Zombie does not have EMC cert.

What are you looking to do with the Zombie, none of the components you mention work with it.
Just curiosity, maybe a for future projects..
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Re: EMC proof of the zombieverter

Post by muehlpower »

NOexhaust wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 7:53 pm §55 STVzO demands..
§55 StVZO is about sound signs ( ein Hupe auf deutsch)! What does this have to do with a conversion? When it comes to an Acoustic Vehicle Alerting System — AVAS (Akustisches Fahrzeug-Warnsystem) , this guideline is important:
VERORDNUNG (EU) Nr. 540/2014 DES EUROPÄISCHEN PARLAMENTS UND DES RATES, ANHANG VIII
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Re: EMC proof of the zombieverter

Post by crasbe »

muehlpower wrote: Mon Nov 27, 2023 8:45 pm §55 StVZO is about sound signs ( ein Hupe auf deutsch)! What does this have to do with a conversion? When it comes to an Acoustic Vehicle Alerting System — AVAS (Akustisches Fahrzeug-Warnsystem) , this guideline is important:
VERORDNUNG (EU) Nr. 540/2014 DES EUROPÄISCHEN PARLAMENTS UND DES RATES, ANHANG VIII
Well the TÜV says §55a, which is not about horns: https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stvz ... __55a.html

The Anhänge in question are:
§ 55a Absatz 1: Anhänge I, IV bis IX

der Richtlinie 72/245/EWG des Rates vom 20. Juni 1972 zur Angleichung der Rechtsvorschriften der Mitgliedstaaten über die Funkentstörung von Kraftfahrzeugmotoren mit Fremdzündung (ABl. L 152 vom 6.7.1972, S. 15), geändert durch die Richtlinie 95/54/EG der Kommission vom 31. Oktober 1995 (ABl. L 266 vom 8.11.1995, S. 1).
Richtlinie 95/54/EG can be found here (in German): https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content ... 31995L0054


And as usual with EG Richtlinien, they go into exhaustive detail about all each and every part :D
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Re: EMC proof of the zombieverter

Post by muehlpower »

The decisive factor would have to be Richtlinie 72/245/EWC, as the amended one from 1995 requires EMC. And in '72 they only talk about engines with spark ignition (Fremdzündung).

Nochmal in Deutsch: Die hier anwendbare Vorschrift Richtlinie 72/245/EWG bezieht sich nur auf Motore mit "Fremdzündung". Also sind elektrische Antriebe ohnehin Außen vor. Die von 1995 gilt erst ab 2002, deshalb die Abgrenzung!
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Re: EMC proof of the zombieverter

Post by crasbe »

The limits in the Richtline 72/245/EWC and 95/54/EG are the same though, so the newer can be used for reference as well, if you only look at Anlage 1. The older Richtlinie however only measures up to 250MHz.

Here is the link: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content ... 31972L0245

I am not sure if the TÜV will accept the argumentation, that only gasoline cars are required to undergo EMV tests. They wouldn't refer to the EMV tests being mandatory if they aren't actually required. Just because the EWG Richtline says something, it doesn't mean the TÜV will actually adhere to that... 😅

I guess this is the quote you're referring to:
72/245/EWC Artikel 1 wrote:Als Fahrzeuge im Sinne dieser Richtlinie gelten —
mit Ausnahme von Schienenfahrzeugen, landwirtschaftlichen Zug- und Arbeitsmaschinen sowie anderen Arbeitsmaschinen — alle zur Teilnahme am
Straßenverkehr bestimmten Kraftfahrzeuge mit
Zündanlage
, mit oder ohne Aufbau, mit mindestens
vier Rädern und einer bauartbedingten Höchstgeschwindigkeit von mehr als 25 km/h.
That would mean that pre-1996 vehicles are completely exempt from EMV tests. From 1996 on this passage was changed to
95/54/EG Artikel 1 wrote:Für die Zwecke dieser Richtlinie bedeutet ,Fahrzeug'
ein in der Richtlinie 70/156/EWG definiertes Fahrzeug.
If the exemption for all pre-1996 vehicles would be true, the Merkblatt would probably say so...
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Re: EMC proof of the zombieverter

Post by muehlpower »

That's exactly how I see it. The limit values ​​are similar, the regulation does not apply to purely electric vehicles before 2002. This would come into play if it was a petrol hybrid. These cases are also covered in leaflet 764. The TÜV will have no problem as long as the motor and inverter are from a current car, even if the control board has been replaced. If this were not the case, simply installing another fan or hi-fi equipment would require an EMC test!

My TÜV inspector put it like this. In principle, all vehicles must comply with the regulations that applied when they first entered road traffic. However, you should be guided by the state of the art. In my case, a car from 1950, I could pack the battery in a wooden box and wouldn't need any protection against contact, which my inspector wouldn't like.
StVZO1956.png
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Re: EMC proof of the zombieverter

Post by catphish »

tom91 wrote: Sun Nov 26, 2023 1:48 pm Zombie does not have EMC cert.
I was under the impression that Damien had the equipment necessary to certify this. I don't know if he's produced any documents though, and it may be a lot more complicated than doing a test and printing a certificate!
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Re: EMC proof of the zombieverter

Post by muehlpower »

Since I am working towards the TÜV, I have done some further research. Directive 72/245/EEC was amended in 1995 by Directive 95/54/EC. This means that for vehicles before 1995, radio interference suppression only has to be proven for engines with spark ignition, after that for all engines.

hope google has translated it correctly
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Re: EMC proof of the zombieverter

Post by crasbe »

muehlpower wrote: Sun Jan 28, 2024 8:42 pm hope google has translated it correctly
All EU directives have official translations for every official language of all member states. So you should be able to find both an official German and English version.
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Re: EMC proof of the zombieverter

Post by muehlpower »

Es ging um meinen Text, die Richtlinien habe ich natürlich in deutsch.
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