I bought a Citroen ibooster GEN2 and have some questions

Discussion about components from Ampera/Bolt and the PSA group which owns Opel these days
jrbe
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Re: I bought a Citroen ibooster GEN2 and have some questions

Post by jrbe »

I meant it more as a lazy adjustment to make some random stack up of brake pedal to master cylinder parts work vs shimming things up / adjusting it properly so it gets it's full range.
I'd be very surprised if the booster was the short straw in travel.

I don't mean to sound harsh but I don't trust a YouTube video for info. I take sourceless info with a 55 gallon drum of salt.
It irritates me how partially-discovered all this stuff is.
We're using parts out of their original design. Some of this stuff is likely broken down in troubleshooting manuals but might need to be adapted. Some is locked down OEM for safety.

This is speculation but there might be an expected travel to pressure map for the OEM application that likely doesn't match it's new usage. If it's adjusting the boost on the fly it might need this expected travel to pressure to do it's thing quickly and smoothly.
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Re: I bought a Citroen ibooster GEN2 and have some questions

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

jrbe wrote: Mon Jan 01, 2024 12:51 amI don't mean to sound harsh but I don't trust a YouTube video for info. I take sourceless info with a 55 gallon drum of salt.
Well, the guy spent 7 months reverse engineering the iBooster CAN protocol and sells brake-by wire kits with his own replacement controller.

I think he probably understands more about the iBooster than anyone except those who designed it.
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Re: I bought a Citroen ibooster GEN2 and have some questions

Post by jrbe »

I've seen Seb's work on this previously. The can bus reverse engineering side is impressive but the whole might be missing some critical things. I don't mean it as a knock, just that it isn't fully worked out yet from my point of view.

The backstop recommendation was mentioned for the remote brake request potentiometer. Sounds like it was just for testing out of the car with missing back pressure from the system so it doesn't error out and stop working was the gist of it.

It's very odd to me that excessive travel would cause a no brake assist error / shutdown mode. I can't imagine a scenario where Bosch saw this as acceptable. If it's hitting it's travel limit it should only stop pushing harder at that point, not go out of service. If there was a brake failure you don't want a second failure on top of it. I'd say there's something wrong or missing that allowed / allows this to happen.

This splits into 2, one for mechanically pushing on the pedal, and potentiometer request brake travel.

Mechanical pushing - Again, I can't imagine it going into shutdown from full pedal travel. It's a dangerous choice to just have the booster shut down.

Potentiometer requested travel - the booster may be sending warning info on the travel limit, motor overload, etc. that the requesting controller should be accounting for. Asking for more after this limit may put it in an ignore the potentiometer / travel request mode. This is of course a guess of what's going wrong to trigger this. But it makes 0 sense that now that self drive has put the booster in an error mode then hands the controls back to the driver but without brake assist. Still seems odd that Bosch would be ok with this shutdown / error mode and is very dangerous.

Sounds to me like something is very wrong here. I wouldn't use it until I had worked out what it is.
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Re: I bought a Citroen ibooster GEN2 and have some questions

Post by AMP3R »

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Today I discovered that the master cylinder is preloaded about 1 mm by default without any power being applied to the ibooster. So it means that preloading the push rod isn't a bad idea. It has a little free play which is needed for the calibration of the travel sensor.
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Re: I bought a Citroen ibooster GEN2 and have some questions

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

AMP3R wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 7:59 pmToday I discovered that the master cylinder is preloaded about 1 mm by default without any power being applied to the ibooster. So it means that preloading the push rod isn't a bad idea. It has a little free play which is needed for the calibration of the travel sensor.
That would be excellent info to add to the wiki.
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Re: I bought a Citroen ibooster GEN2 and have some questions

Post by jrbe »

AMP3R wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 7:59 pm

Today I discovered that the master cylinder is preloaded about 1 mm by default without any power being applied to the ibooster. So it means that preloading the push rod isn't a bad idea. It has a little free play which is needed for the calibration of the travel sensor.
Is this a part of the code in the booster, a recommended mechanical spec, or an error?

You have to be careful preloading a brake master cylinder. At some travel point it blocks the port to the brake fluid reservoir. This means as the brakes / fluid heat up the system builds pressure when there should be none and the brakes drag.

Bosch making the ibooster and the brake master cylinder means they know exactly what their tolerances are and how much they can safely preload the brake master cylinder. Adding more to this might put it past the reservoir port.
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Re: I bought a Citroen ibooster GEN2 and have some questions

Post by AMP3R »

jrbe wrote: Sun Jan 07, 2024 10:57 pm Is this a part of the code in the booster, a recommended mechanical spec, or an error?

You have to be careful preloading a brake master cylinder. At some travel point it blocks the port to the brake fluid reservoir. This means as the brakes / fluid heat up the system builds pressure when there should be none and the brakes drag.

Bosch making the ibooster and the brake master cylinder means they know exactly what their tolerances are and how much they can safely preload the brake master cylinder. Adding more to this might put it past the reservoir port.
I know a guy (Filip Kossakowski) who is an engineer at Bosch automotive in Poland. He was developing and testing ibooster gen2. I think the best way to know info about preloading is to ask him. I'll try again.
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Re: I bought a Citroen ibooster GEN2 and have some questions

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

AMP3R wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 8:09 am I know a guy (Filip Kossakowski) who is an engineer at Bosch automotive in Poland. He was developing and testing ibooster gen2. I think the best way to know info about preloading is to ask him. I'll try again.
... I would absolutely abusively take advantage of this relationship. Kidnap and interrogate him :P

So many questions.
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Re: I bought a Citroen ibooster GEN2 and have some questions

Post by AMP3R »

MattsAwesomeStuff wrote: Mon Jan 08, 2024 8:33 am ... I would absolutely abusively take advantage of this relationship. Kidnap and interrogate him :P

So many questions.
If someone has linkedin please contact him. I don't have access to private messages there. https://pl.linkedin.com/in/filip-kossakowski-6270a6153
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Re: I bought a Citroen ibooster GEN2 and have some questions

Post by woutvanschaik »

tom91 wrote: Fri Dec 15, 2023 11:43 am What have you wired up, please show us? did you wire the 4 pin position sensor?
eventually got it working. seems that the wiring of the toyota is a bit different. it also has a different connector compared to other gen2 iboosters. the wiring should be the same as other gen2 iboosters, except the sensor. sensor should be wired as follows:
main connector pin 2 --> position sensor pin 3
main connector pin 8 --> position sensor pin 1
main connector pin 22 --> position sensor pin 4
main connector pin 23 --> position sensor pin 2
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Re: I bought a Citroen ibooster GEN2 and have some questions

Post by MattsAwesomeStuff »

woutvanschaik wrote: Tue Jan 16, 2024 2:54 pmeventually got it working. seems that the wiring of the toyota is a bit different.
Please make sure this ends up in the wiki!
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Re: I bought a Citroen ibooster GEN2 and have some questions

Post by AMP3R »

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I was tired of struggling with PSA software and, in order not to suffer, I bought another iBooster from the 2022 Tesla M3. I plugged it in and there was complete silence! No clicking every 5 seconds! And as a bonus I got the opportunity to do an adaptive cruise if desired. At PSA this is still done by the ESP.

In short, this topic is no longer relevant to me. I’ll assemble one ibooster from the two and it can be screwed onto the car.
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Re: I bought a Citroen ibooster GEN2 and have some questions

Post by woutvanschaik »

AMP3R wrote: Fri Dec 22, 2023 9:36 pm Here is wiring diagram. iboosters for peugeot/citroen does not have dual can.
so you are using pin 10 an 18 for CAN? I tried pin 16 and 25 first, and the ibooster did unlock when i apply ignition, but it does not send any CAN messages. it even brings down the whole bus, which was operating at 500 kbps. any idea?
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Re: I bought a Citroen ibooster GEN2 and have some questions

Post by AMP3R »

woutvanschaik wrote: Wed May 22, 2024 7:52 am so you are using pin 10 an 18 for CAN?
Yes.
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Re: I bought a Citroen ibooster GEN2 and have some questions

Post by woutvanschaik »

got the citroen iBooster working by using the CAN pins 10 and 18. I now get a clicking sound about every ten seconds. does anyone know if there needs to be any message transmitted on CAN to prevent this clicking? also, is anyone quite sure about what the clicking sound is?
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Re: I bought a Citroen ibooster GEN2 and have some questions

Post by AMP3R »

woutvanschaik wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 6:11 am got the citroen iBooster working by using the CAN pins 10 and 18. I now get a clicking sound about every ten seconds. does anyone know if there needs to be any message transmitted on CAN to prevent this clicking? also, is anyone quite sure about what the clicking sound is?
Read the whole topic and you will understand that there is no point in suffering with a Citroen ibooster.
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Re: I bought a Citroen ibooster GEN2 and have some questions

Post by woutvanschaik »

AMP3R wrote: Mon May 27, 2024 7:22 am Read the whole topic and you will understand that there is no point in suffering with a Citroen ibooster.
I understand that the Tesla model 3 iBooster would signal-wise be ideal, but the advantage with the Citroen one is that I can implement it without doing any physical adaptions. hoping to get this one to work properly. somthing else that i do not understand is that the feedback signal does not change a single bit when the sound is hearable. This would indicate to me that this sound has nothing to do with the actuation of the master cylinder, but assumably with the locking mechanism. hoping to get any confirmation on this.
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Re: I bought a Citroen ibooster GEN2 and have some questions

Post by AMP3R »

I know the reason. The clicking every 10 sec because the ibooster is trying to set the push rod to the zero position. For some reason it fails and tries again and again. The PSA technical documentation says that ibooster needs to be adapted via a diag tool. I don’t know how to make it without a whole car.

I struggled with PSA CAN for several months, then assembled one ibooster out of two, screwing in a controller from a Tesla.
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