The Greg's Grid Tie Solar Project

[Gregski]

[wipes coffee off his monitor screen] as I pointed out in one of my recent videos, we just started converting to the metric system 50 years ago, give us time bro! plus it's so much more easier to remember water freezes at 32° Fahrvergnügens than 0°Caesars

[arber333]

..... it's so much more easier to remember water freezes at 32° Fahrvergnügens than 0°Caesars

Especialy since ancient latin doesnt know the vocal for C ... therefore you are stuck with K .... as in 0°Kaiser = 273° Kelvin .

[Gregski]

when the EV conversion world converges with the DIY solar world

[Gregski]

so a bit of an update and a new discovery, I keep pushing the envelope in search of new bottlenecks, also made an arbitrary goal of 10 kWh of energy production per day

so I keep adding solar panels, 200 watt each to be exact, and I add them in pairs because I am connecting them in parallel to up the voltage, so I went from 6 panels and 1,200 watts total, to 8 panels for a total of 1,600 watts, and learned how that effects the 1,000 watt inverter

so my operating input DC voltage is 2 x 37 volts or 64 volts because the panels are in pairs aka parallel

[Gregski]

I know what you are thinking, how can you fit 6 gallons into a 5 gallon bucket, right?

well these inverters aint all that efficient, so you don't use 1,000 watts of solar panels to feed a 1,000 watt inverter like this one cause it will be operating at maybe 70% efficiency

that's why I decided to pump in 1,600 watts of solar panel energy into a 1,000 watt inverter, and here's what happened

FYI, the specs on this SUN grid tie inverter claim 92% efficiency and yes there is a discrepancy of what it claims it is doing on it's little LCD display and what the Emporia smart plug graph shows below

we flattened the bell curve so we hit a limit and are leaving energy on the table sort of speak

don't mind that it says OFFLINE I have it on a sunrise sunset schedule so the Emporia smart plug powers itself off and back on

[Gregski]

so it was time for an upgrade... to a 2,000 watt 240 volt animal

Note that Emporia does not make 240 volt smart plugs so we have to switch to their Vue Monitor and use a hall effect current sensor

[Alibro]

I bought a Solax 5kW hybrid inverter just to use with batteries.
I now have two sensors arguing with each other as to where the power should go.

[johu]

Time to prioritize: let them aim for different targets. So one would allow, say -100W into the grid and the other aims for 0W
Done something similar here: viewtopic.php?t=2571

[Alibro]

Time to prioritize: let them aim for different targets. So one would allow, say -100W into the grid and the other aims for 0W
Done something similar here: viewtopic.php?t=2571

Most of the time they get it right but occasionally there is some confusion, like when a heavy load turns off or the sun suddenly comes out or goes in.
Overall I'm very please with how well it works.

[Gregski]

so here is a first look at a production graph with eight 200 watt solar panels (1,600 watts) feeding into a 2,000 watt 240v inverter

Note: no need to adjust your monitors, Emporia the company who makes the smart plugs and the Vue monitor and software that I use to provide these graphs changed how they display solar production to now be upside down, so blue right side up is consumption and green upside down is solar production, I won't lie to you at first I thought I installed the hall effect current sensor on backwards, but it do the same thing clipped on either way, and I confirmed this with their Tech Support


now we see a nice pointy tip at the top of the upside down bell curve, valley curve? something like that

[Alibro]

Seems a weird way to present the information.
I bet their help desk loves it!

[johu]

How are the prices of solar tech developing in the land of the free? Read some worrying news

[Gregski]

How are the prices of solar tech developing in the land of the free? Read some worrying news

[johu]

That's right!
Little did you know that we found quitting smoking just doesn't work. So now we subsidize cigarettes and teach children in school that smoking is good for you! Also more smoking=more freedom

No seriously, have the prices for panels, inverters etc. changed so far?

[Gregski]

No seriously, have the prices for panels, inverters etc. changed so far?

This is not a simple answer but I will try my best. The short answer is no, not in the last few months, but hell yes over the last few years! I hope that makes sense.

It is not a simple answer because it is impossible for me to compare prices apples to apples as the same products get sold out and show as no longer available to check prices today, but here they are over the years.

for example in May 28, 2020 a 100 watt 12v WindyNation solar panel cost me $77.00 dollars, the same panel in May 15, 2022 was $99.00 dollars.

In August 10, 2022 Renogy 30 foot solar cable was $40 bucks the same cable in April 25, 2023 was $52 bucks

In September 9, 2022 a Rich Solar two pack of 100 watt 12 volt panels cost me $186 dollars the same panels in May 29, 2023 were $205

a pair of Y adapter cables back in August 2, 2022 was $8.00 on October 13, 2023 $9.00

a 5 foot extension cable in April 20, 2023 was $11 dollars and in April 8, 2025 is now $12 dollars

[Gregski]

I usually don't do this, but just came across this on AMAZON while doing some historical price comparisons for Johannes, so blame him, this is a super great buy for anyone looking to get into the sport

https://www.amazon.com/Grid-Tie-Inverte ... B0DP67PCL9

AH SH!ET just learned they get you on the Shipping - $30 bucks !!!

[Gregski]

Seems a weird way to present the information.
I bet their help desk loves it!

ha ha, indeed, I think that is the trend these days as here is a graph from my city electric company, and although we are looking at a different day, you can also see that when I am sending them my electricity the green part of the graph is upside down

[Gregski]

so just picked up one of these Emporia Gen 3 Monitors for myself and my baby brother to monitor our solar, these have way stronger WiFi signals than just suing the plugs, and it works great for him since his inverter is in a shed on the side of the house, I am thinking of picking up yet another one for our mums house

these also unlike just the Smart Plugs actually recognize if your energy is coming or going, so they don't show solar as consumption in blue but as production in green, good times

FYI they finally discontinued support for their Gen 1 product line so I advice you don't buy those used on eBay any more, at least jump in at Gen 2 if buying used

[Gregski]

Mandatory Stare and Compare

from left to right all three Gens of the Emporia monitors

[Gregski]

added two more 200 watt panels for a total of ten, now we have 2,000 watts of solar panels feeing into a 2,000 watt inverter, they are connected in pairs, so there are five pairs in parallel, and I can't wait to see how much energy that generates, hoping for at least 10 kWh per day

Total System Cost so far: $2,500(ish)


(yes I tried to wash them with Windex last night when I added the two additional panels on the right)

hell yeah 10 kWh of Sunergy

[johu]

Getting back to the cost question. What do you think about this?

[Gregski]

Getting back to the cost question. What do you think about this?

Oh Wow! well this is only 100% accurate, and I think this may stem from the Central Heat & Air Conditioning companies mentality (charge what you can get away with) and I wonder how many of them are diversifying and now doing Solar Panel System installs. I kid you not, I was sitting on the couch next to my retired 75 year old mother when a twenty something year old sales men from one of the larger AC Installers in town pitched her an $18,000 dollar ductless air conditioning system about five years ago, fully aware she was a senior citizen on fixed income, completely shameless! So I called up my old AC repairman who I relied on for years while being a landlord, and asked if they do new AC installations and he said sure so he did it for $6,000. Same exact brand, I kid you not!

Furthermore, I think any time the Government gets involved things only can get worse. California offers several incentives to encourage solar panel adoption, including federal and state tax credits, rebates, and other programs. The Residential Clean Energy Credit (formerly the federal investment tax credit) provides a 30% tax credit for solar installations. So hear me out.

Before the 1970s: California's public universities (UC and CSU systems) were essentially tuition-free for state residents, with students only paying nominal fees. However in the 70s cost of college tuition in California lets say was $1,000 dollars per semester. Then the government got involved and said we will give grants or loans for say up to 70% of the cost which the students don't have to pay back till they graduate. OK, well that sounds wonderful doesn't it? Well in a perfect world yes, but that's not how the real world works. Now the colleges said hmmm, that kids parents can still fork out a grand per semester so we can now charge them $1,500. But wait that still would be fair and the same cost to the parents, so what the colleges did they upped the tuition to $3,000 grand or so per semester, and things only got worse from there.

I graduated college in the mid 90s, 20 years later I saved up three times what I paid for my school for my kids college and that only covered one school year for them !!!

[johu]

Oh wow, well thanks for the insight.
I'm not totally against incentives but they need to be done right.
- Currently we have subsidies for heatpump installations and magically they cost twice as much as in France
- We used to have direct EV subsidies of 6000€. Dacia Spring cost about 5000€ less in France... When the subsidies were halted, EV firms were suddenly able to shell out "rebates" at a similar level
- The feed-in tariff was one of the subsidies that works. You are guaranteed a fixed feed-in rate for 20 years. The later you build, the lower the rate to account for progress. This spawned a mayhem of installations. There was the "Altmeyer dip" in 2013 when the rate was dropped so sharply that people stopped building. Some say Mr. Altmeyer was too good friends with the coalies. Subsequently we lost all panel production to China.
- Since 2022 or so VAT is removed from all solar products like panels, inverters and even installation cost. A 450W panel can be had for around 50€. Some use them as tiles because they are cheaper than plywood

[Gregski]

and here's what my electric company called Sacramento Municipal Utility District aka SMUD sees

SMUD 2025 06 18 summary.jpg (27.48 KiB) Viewed 178 times