EV Conversion using prius gen 2 inverter/transaxle

[johu]

You press the button "Start inverter in manual mode" on top of the page.
As a reaction you should also see "Inverter started" just above the parameter list

Then you press refresh and then you check opmode.

[voti]

I did a few tests today.

I "set ocurlim -1 " and hit send custom command
I went to testing section and set manualstart to on, fslipspnt to 1 and ampnom to 1.

I started inverter in manual mode and went to check sport values for opmode if it's on manual run. It was off so I hit refresh and opmode changed to ManualRun. I had my light bulbs connected but they didn't light up. I used my multimeter to test phase to phase but I got 0.00v.

I set my multimeter to DC then connected my multimeters negative probe to the negative terminal of the i9 connector and used the positive probe to test each phase. I got a reading of 0.32v on each of the three phase outputs. This voltage reading didn't change before or after starting thr inverter in manual mode.

I think the waveform on the scope doesn't change because the scope is reading this 0.32v before or after starting the inverter.


What cousin be the problem of the three phase not working.
I tested pin pins 28,29 amd 30 and I'm getting 15v, I doubled checked all other connecting.

I set ocurlim to -1 on custom command, opmode is on ManualRun, under testing manual mode is on fslipspnt 1 ampnom 1.

WHAT AM I MISSING OUT?

[johu]

The instructions at this point read

- Connect your scope probe ground to ground of your lab supply and verify that Pin 28, 29 and 30 of the controller show a perfect rectangular wave form
- Now verify that you see the same perfect rectangular wave form on the 3 inverter phase outputs

There is nothing about light bulbs. What wave form does the scope show on Pin 28, 39 and 30 and which on the three phase outputs? Post it here

[MattsAwesomeStuff]

Voti - Troubleshooting, especially over text, is really difficult.

When I was giving you advice, I understood a small portion of how things are supposed to work, and was just taking my best guess. So if you can manage to follow that procedure, but also want to try your own extra ideas to it afterwards, and you can keep those two things separate (you haven't done a great job of this, you've been all over the map), then taking some initiative is fine. Especially if you're bored waiting for a result.

But Johannes knows *exactly* how to troubleshoot this. So, try to follow *exactly* what he says. If you deviate, then you've introduced new things that could be causing problems, and he can't "see" the situation as clearly.

When I suggested you could try skipping to the end once you saw 15v, that was an additional thing to try just to see if your new wiring had suddenly fixed things (where if not, then reset and go back to the procedure given), while waiting on a reply and that might save everyone some time. But not something to do instead of following Johannes' instructions.

That was probably foolish advice for me to give you in particular anyways, because you've been doing this thing where you follow MOST of the instructions, but skip steps or answer only a portion of the questions asked, which just leads to more guesswork and the troubleshooter having to juggle in their heads what you might have been up to or changed.

You've got a guaranteed troubleshooting path here, just follow the script. And, considering you get a bit scatterbrained, it's probably a good idea to avoid trying extra things in the mean time, because who knows whether you get the setup back to what it was supposed to be or whether you were as thorough putting it back as you were when you first set it up.

My two cents. Follow the script. You'll get there.

[johu]

I just remembered this 9 year old video. It's not Prius-specific but also shows the process of commissioning an inverter. Still stick to the script above

[RetroZero]

For info, I found my 2nd adapter board. I thought I'd see if I could help.
Besides the fact I bricked my user interface.... another post and long story, I tested PINS 28, 29 & 30 and confirmed 15V when NOT powered up.
So Battery Earth to PIN 19 and Battery Positive to 28, 29 & 30 terminals one at a time.
When Voltage is applied to the Adapter board, PINs 28, 29 & 30 drop to 0V.
Will test in Manual Run when I have restored User Interface.

[voti]

First of all I'd like to apologize for all the trouble I've caused you all. I wouldn't be here if I knew whay I had to do. I appreciate all the effort and time you've invested in helping me out. I really appreciate that


From now on I'll give a detailed explanation of everything I do.

First I made a probing wire since I didn't have one. I used an old laptop cable. I've attached pictures below. The white wire showing from the black cable is my positive and the other longer wire is my negative. For the test points I have a green and yellow cable which is my negative and the shorter head is my positive.

After connecting it to the scope I first tested with my hand to see if it works. I also have pictures of that below.

Next I turn on the inverter and the vcu I tested pins 28 29 and 30 before logging in the web Interface, a noise pattern showed up on the scope.

Then I went to the web Interface, I set ocurlim -1 and hit send custom command. I went to test section and set manual mode on fslipspnt 1 and ampnom 1. I started inverter in manual mode, went to sport values check opmode, I hit refreshed and it changed from off to ManualRun.

I went back to three phase output on the inverter to test and the waveform was still the same.

I wasn't sure if I was supposed to test on the inverter or the control board for the waveform so I also tested the pins on the board and ive attached that pictures aswell.

[RetroZero]

Do you have 15v on the 3 phase pins on adapter board when inverter ON and adapter board OFF?

[voti]

Do you have 15v on the 3 phase pins on adapter board when inverter ON and adapter board OFF?

Yes I've tested that before and I got readings on the pins. Johannes asked me prior to do it and I attached pictures to my response to him

[RetroZero]

Didn't see that post, been following whilst busy on other projects. I dont have a scope, & the inverter is not accessible. I'll make up a delta connection with 1,5w bulbs & put them on the 3 pins. I assume it's the same principal as sending to the inverter, which amplifies these signals.
For now, I'm working on reflashing esp8266 so I am up to date with new openinverter parameter UI.

[johu]

Next I turn on the inverter and the vcu I tested pins 28 29 and 30 before logging in the web Interface, a noise pattern showed up on the scope.

Ok, so from your scoping it looks like no PWM is coming out of the ULN2003 driver. Can you measure the ULN2003 inputs, so pins 4,5,6 of IC6?
Are you sure you scope works?

[voti]

just to confirm. The IC6 is the one circled on the picture attached. If yes. Please indicate for me pins 4,5 and 6.

Once that has been done. What input am I'm checking on this pins.

To confirm if the scope is functioning properly. I'll invite an electrician to help me test this time around just to be sure.

[MattsAwesomeStuff]

just to confirm. The IC6 is the one circled on the picture attached.

Ehn, don't take it from me, but the label says IC6, so, sounds good.

If yes. Please indicate for me pins 4,5 and 6.

I had a feeling when Johannes gave that instruction that it wasn't foolproof enough.

Googling for the ULN2003 pinout yields this:

What input am I'm checking on this pins.

You're just connecting your scope to that pin and ground. And looking for voltage on those pins.

I dunno if he means while in the same circumstances you were testing pins 28, 29, and 30 before. You're just connecting to these pins instead.

To confirm if the scope is functioning properly. I'll invite an electrician to help me test this time around just to be sure.

I dunno that an electrician knows how to use a scope. I don't think any electricians I've ever met would. But, if he's even aware of what it is, that sounds like a plan.

I would try testing if I know how to use a scope by connecting the scope to like, an AA battery or something, and making sure I know how to use the scope's controls to see the 1.5v on the screen, which drops to zero as I disconnect one of the wires, so I can be sure that I know I can see a change in voltage on my screen. You'd still have to figure out how to use the time knob, but, at least you'd know if your scope is working or not.

[johu]

Thanks Matt. Oh and it's pins 5,6,7
Inverter must be in state "Manual Run" and fslipspnt=ampnom=1

[voti]

I had to watch more than 2 tutorials on how to use a scope to make sure I get it right since I ouldnt find anyone to help me. My country is not thst advanced in technology. In my home town there isn't a single shop selling electronic parts, not to mention an oscilloscope. Finding someone who knows how to use one is even harder.

So I was able to make sure that the scope works fine, "I'd like to think do, you'll be my judge". I've attached screenshots below of the readings I got.

On the tutorials they helped me test the probe using the 2vp-p 1kHz test on the left bottom corner of my scope. And I was able to get a proper square wave from dc. Then I went on to test a 1.5v AAA battery.
First I rested it with my multimeter to see if it has some juice in it. Then I used my scope to see what will happen when I connect it to the battery. The green horizontal bar moved a round about 90% labeled on the vertical side of the scopes display screen.


Then from there I logged in the web Interface, set ocurlim -1 ampnom 1 fslipspnt 1 selected manual mode and hit start inverter in manual mode. Went to spot values, refreshed and confirmed manualmode.
Then I first used my multimeter to test for voltage on the ic6 chip. First I tested pin 8 GND and pin 9 VCC and I found 14.57v which my power supply is supplying (15v) the I tested pins 5,6,7 against pin 8GND, the pins 5,6,7 and thr ones on the left side of the ic6 which are input that Johu said I should test, right?.
With the scope I couldn't barely find any readings as I got 0.01v on all this three pins. When I tested using the scope the horizontal green bar on the scope barely moved and it just shifted I think by 0. Something on the horizontal axes I had it on. I hope you understand what I mean. But in shot in barely moved because when I tested pins 8 and pin 9 of ic6, the green horizontal bar shot way up, so high that it couldn't read on the screen, way above 100%.

Pictures attached, sequence from bottom to top

[MattsAwesomeStuff]

Seeing a square wave is good news. It tells me your scope is functioning, your probe lines aren't broken, you have some correct understanding of how to operate the scope. All good things.

Getting 15v on the ULN2003's pins is good, I think. I don't know if that's the right voltage for the bus, but, it confirms you've got power going to the chip.

Getting 0v on pins 5, 6, and 7 is sad. Yes, the left side.

That means the controller is not telling the chip to make a square wave.

I'll stay aside and let Johannes advise further on where the fault is located and what to try next.

[johu]

While the controller should be making a square wave, can you pull up
http://192.168.4.1/cmd?cmd=json
And attach the contents here as a text file

[voti]

i set ocurlim -1 fslipspnt 1 ampnom 1 and started invetrer in manual mode. this is what i pulled up.

[johu]

Aaah! Set dirmode to DefaultForward
It's now in Neutral!

[voti]

That's it?

[MattsAwesomeStuff]

That's it?

If so... then, I've contributed to leading you astray.

And also, this is really interesting from a community/troubleshooting/documentation perspective.

Let's start off with....

In this post: viewtopic.php?p=79553#p79553

You were following these instructions: https://openinverter.org/wiki/Toyota_Pr ... Controller

You had a question about Step 9, which said, and you quoted to say: "default forward, ampnom @ 70%, and fslipspnt @1 Hz. Select - "Start Inverter in Manual Mode" Confirm flashing lights" And weren't sure what it all meant. So you correctly quoted the part you didn't understand, and, identified the problem (among a sea of other questions).

And in the next post, I replied and went through them one by one, and said: ""default forward" - One of the parameters is about which direction the motor should be spinning by default. I forget what it's called, and it doesn't matter, because this'll be the default and even if it's not, it'll still work." So I knew at this point there was some parameter out there that could be set to this. But without the hardware in front of me, no way I could look it up the name or the value, and told you to ignore it anyways because it'd be done a different way.

...

And, I gave you bad advice. What I meant was, "it will still work, because you'll be connecting a physical wire to set the direction to be forward". And I was presuming you were connecting that wire at some point in your procedure. Hence, the default doesn't matter (doesn't matter on my setup, works without it). So I was correct. But wrong.

Had we gone all the way through the "wire by wire" picture process, I think I might've caught that you hadn't connected it yet. In fact I could've sworn I asked about you hooking up that wire, but re-reading the entire thread here, I didn't. Too many things to keep track of.

But... there you go. I was often saying that in the end we'd discover there to be some breakdown between what you think you've followed correctly, or what I think I've described correctly, but you've done something different. Somewhere along the line, some presumption was being made, or some detail wasn't clear enough. The mistake was mine.

The instructions you were following don't say "On the OI device interface, type: "Set dirmode DefaultForward" or, whatever the numerical value is (I still don't know) and click the "send command" button next to it. They just rattle off an abbreviated: ""default forward", amprom @70%..."

In this post: viewtopic.php?p=80567#p80567

You didn't know how to use the OI interface at all to change a command, so I described it for you.

But even then, on the list of parameters: https://openinverter.org/wiki/Parameters
For DirMode, it only says: "dirmode 0=button (momentary pulse selects forward/reverse), 1=switch (forward or reverse signal must be constantly high)"

It doesn't say anything about defaulting to a certain direction, just to toggle between momentary and latched switches.

Is that outdated? I can't look it up anywhere without logging into the interface that I don't have handy.


...

And I think that's the root of the problem from a community perspective.

The instructions documented are from a perspective of "Someone already familiar with past OI boards, here's what you'd need to do to get this specific new type of board running." So, they'd recognize that the abbreviated verbal instruction "default forward" is referring to a specific unnamed parameter that they (the person writing instructions) already knew about, that the user following those instructions needs to change the parameter "dirmode" (that no one mentioned) needs to be set to value "DefaultFoward".

But to someone who doesn't know this all off by heart, they might not even pick up on that "default forward" refers to a setting of some parameter. Since it's listed first, they might think it's just a label, and that everything that follows is a list for someone who's setting it up to move forward by default.

Also, the power of open source is its curse. There's almost always multiple ways to do something, and conflicting presumptions about what will be obvious to someone. I say it's okay to ignore that instruction, because of course you'll be connecting a wire later. But those specific instructions don't tell you to ever connect that wire, and meanwhile I've skimmed them and presumed they did.

...

So what could have prevented this?

- A less ambiguous and more detailed procedure to follow to setting up the board.

- Perhaps, a properly documented Parameters list on the main page. As it seems that documentation is outdated (I think).

But... the OI software is regularly updated. This might change very specific procedures for specific boards. So if the procedure is highly detailed, every time Johannes makes an update to the software, he'd have to go through every single board procedure and double-check that it doesn't need to change.

Johannes is the one most familiar with the code, and especially the impacts of new changes he made, so he's the best person to do this. But, he's also the worst person to do this, because it's really difficult to un-learn what you know and think like a novice and what may or may not be obvious to them.

So maybe someone else in the community is best. Except, now we'll have various bits of documentation with inconsistent updates to them.

- So, perhaps a central procedure to follow that is kept current, and purge all the extra partially-documented procedures to follow. The procedure for a specific board should only describe the specific way to follow the central procedure, as pertains to the context of that board. Then, hopefully, that only needs updating if someone updates that specific board.

I dunno if any of that makes sense, but I feel that it's a pervasive issue holding back the DIY EV community. It's just not userfriendly enough to be followed by the majority of people who are capable of following it, if it was written for them rather than a much more technical audience.

[RetroZero]

I hear you. The instructions are outdated and there needs to be more simple clear steps.
@voti along with you & @johu trying to solve the issues, you have highlighted quite some floors.
I'm no expert - i dug out my 2nd adapter board, updated it to new OI User interface, and have now bricked it. The last month has been scrolling through threads to solve the problem, but i am always missing something so going in circles. No one simple clear solution seems available, always a cooked up recipe.....
Simple, detailed (with pictures) hand holding instructions from here on from me.

[Jacobsmess]

Documentation on the wiki is best also. That way it's in a logical location rather than spread out over a forum that can be difficult to search.

[voti]

And in the next post, I replied and went through them one by one, and said: ""default forward" - One of the parameters is about which direction the motor should be spinning by default. I forget what it's called, and it doesn't matter, because this'll be the default and even if it's not, it'll still work." So I knew at this point there was some parameter out there that could be set to this. But without the hardware in front of me, no way I could look it up the name or the value, and told you to ignore it anyways because it'd be done a different way.

Thank you for bringing this up, it helps to trace where we come from. When doing test run I used to set dirmode to DefaultForward but I stopped when you said

When I was giving you advice, I understood a small portion of how things are supposed to work, and was just taking my best guess. So if you can manage to follow that procedure, but also want to try your own extra ideas to it afterwards, and you can keep those two things separate (you haven't done a great job of this, you've been all over the map), then taking some initiative is fine. Especially if you're bored waiting for a result.

But Johannes knows *exactly* how to troubleshoot this. So, try to follow *exactly* what he says. If you deviate, then you've introduced new things that could be causing problems, and he can't "see" the situation as clearly.

and at this point in time Johannes had said

Three major things need to be done right for getting the inverter to pulse:
- The grounds of inverter and controller must be joined up
- MSDN must be pulled to 12V, verify this on the inverter side. That is pin 25 on the inverter connector
- All three PWM inputs must make contact to the controller. With the inverter turned on and the controller turned off make sure that Pin 28, 29 and 30 on the controller side read 15V

Good, so now we have the most important connections made. Time to power up the controller.
- Do not connect anything to the inverter phase outputs
- I suggest powering both controller, inverter logic and inverter HV DC with a current limited lab power supply (can be the same for all 3) without any fuses or resistors that can get in the way. Set the current limit to 3A, voltage to 15V
- Use most recent software 5.35 and set ocurlim to -1 (disabled)
- Put inverter in manual mode with fslipspnt=1, ampnom=1
- Verify that opmode reads ManualRun
- Connect your scope probe ground to ground of your lab supply and verify that Pin 28, 29 and 30 of the controller show a perfect rectangular wave form
- Now verify that you see the same perfect rectangular wave form on the 3 inverter phase outputs

So I did exactly what he said hence why I left dirmode out of it because he didn't mention it, and you said I should keep my own ideas to my self and save them for later.

I dunno if any of that makes sense, but I feel that it's a pervasive issue holding back the DIY EV community. It's just not userfriendly enough to be followed by the majority of people who are capable of following it, if it was written for them rather than a much more technical audience.

What you and RetroZero are saying is really true. Yes this community is active and supportive but there are a few things missing for newbies like me.

[MattsAwesomeStuff]

So I did exactly what he said hence why I left dirmode out of it because he didn't mention it, and you said I should keep my own ideas to my self and save them for later.

Yeah. Instructions would be best served with a clean slate and a literal obedience on a test run.

In the past getting my board to run, people gave me very specific procedures to follow and then... turns out no one in history has ever actually followed those, and, they don't actually work. I hit a dead end, and when someone else went back to show me what was supposed to happen is the first time anyone even figured out the Prius hardware doesn't work that way.

This is the novice's way of contributing. Like, on one hand, this has been 4 pages of troubleshooting. But, it's also 4 pages of troubleshooting the instructions and all the ways they might confuse a novice. That's valuable contribution too. Often Johannes will make an update and ask for people to play test it, and, get crickets in response. Then later on down the line someone will go to use it and at that point is when the fault is uncovered.

...

That said...

Have you confirmed that changing dirmode to defaultforward and then going back to Johanne's procedure/scope measurements solved the problem? While all this discussion is useful, and while it was a problem you ran into... we don't yet know that it's the ONLY problem you're having, yet

And, as you had it set correctly during earlier testing, we still don't know why it wasn't working before.

We're not out of the woods yet...