openinverter forum

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 8:39 am**

SciroccoEV wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2020 7:59 am The software expects the current sensors to read somewhere close to zero at startup. That's both your offset errors.

Hm, current control pins are not connected to anything. As I going to run ACIM under sine software I guess I don't need those current sensors. How do I turn them off or trickle software so it won't show this error?

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 8:56 am**

konstantin8818 wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2020 8:39 am Hm, current control pins are not connected to anything. As I going to run ACIM under sine software I guess I don't need those current sensors. How do I turn them off or trickle software so it won't show this error?

Perhaps you remember some quite extended discussions about level shifters for the current sensors.

From those you should know what voltage should appear on the ADC input to represent zero current.

From the schematic you can read the values of the input divider network and work out the division ratio, so you know what external voltage to apply to create the right voltage at the ADC input.

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 9:46 am**

SciroccoEV wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2020 8:56 am Perhaps you remember some quite extended discussions about level shifters for the current sensors.

From those you should know what voltage should appear on the ADC input to represent zero current.

From the schematic you can read the values of the input divider network and work out the division ratio, so you know what external voltage to apply to create the right voltage at the ADC input.

Yup, I remember this "confusion of the highest order" =) I just hoped that if I don't need that I just can disable it in software.
The further I go into open source the clearer it seems to me that maybe Curtis's software isn't that confusing

it was kind of preparation for an open source.

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 4:41 pm**

A quick revert back to Zookeeper's findings on the terminals on the C5 connector. I examined mine this afternoon and Pin 1 seems the best pin to start the DCDC converter. Unfortunately neither of my gen 2 inverters have a pin 1. By design they are missing. ??
Anyone else have this problem. The inverters I have would have been for the European market.

Stephen

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 5:22 pm**

Stephen Darbey wrote: ↑Sun May 17, 2020 4:41 pm A quick revert back to Zookeeper's findings on the terminals on the C5 connector. I examined mine this afternoon and Pin 1 seems the best pin to start the DCDC converter. Unfortunately neither of my gen 2 inverters have a pin 1. By design they are missing. ??
Anyone else have this problem. The inverters I have would have been for the European market.

20200517_153605.jpg

Stephen

it's up side down. Your pins are all there, it is pin 6 that is missing. Everything is OK.

Posted: **Sun May 17, 2020 6:56 pm**

Hope that is all it is but will check and revert. I did not notice the blank on the wiki photo. I just pulled it all apart this afternoon.

Regards
Stephen

Posted: **Mon May 18, 2020 7:00 pm**

Hey Konstantin8818.

Top marks. I must remember to bring my laptop down to my Mums garage where I do all this ( top secret hideout/Man shed), then I can check all without having to publicise a blunder.
I went back this evening after work and performed some of the tests I did yesterday but still did not have the results of Zookeeper. I get a highly fluctuating voltage on the DC/DC output and High voltage. I suspect my voltage may not be high enough or even strong enough.

Regards
stephen

Posted: **Mon May 18, 2020 8:54 pm**

Stephen Darbey wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 7:00 pm I suspect my voltage may not be high enough or even strong enough.

As Zookeeper tested, you have to provide atleast 100 volts DC to BUS line for dc-dc to operate correctly. I haven't performed any tests on my inverter yet. Still need some basic circuits to make before testing.

Posted: **Sun May 24, 2020 2:22 pm**

To make logic board happy about phases currents instead of using OP amp schemes people suggested, I've stole circuit from johu's gen 2 board, because it is simplier

I've tested it on circuit emulator

After an hour of soldering misery this thing was born:

And if nothing is attached to its inverting input, and little dc-dc stepdown board provides 5.5V, this is what we see at output:

And the board is happy. Now after I've set all the parameters, but the board is not connected to anything yet, it is not happy about precharge.

Are errors marked as [WARN] don't stop the inverter from operating?

Posted: **Sun May 24, 2020 3:28 pm**

konstantin8818 wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 2:22 pm Are errors marked as [WARN] don't stop the inverter from operating?

Correct.
Adjust your udcsw parameter to get rid of the precharge error - see what udc is reading at and then set udcsw below that. I'm doing the same right now since I messed up my voltage sensor and I can't wait to run my motor

Posted: **Sun May 24, 2020 3:49 pm**

Isaac96 wrote: ↑Sun May 24, 2020 3:28 pm Correct.
Adjust your udcsw parameter to get rid of the precharge error - see what udc is reading at and then set udcsw below that. I'm doing the same right now since I messed up my voltage sensor and I can't wait to run my motor

Thanks! It makes things simpler.

Posted: **Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:47 am**

I do not see these boards available on the evbmw webstore, are they still available for purchase? My local junkyard has a Gen 2 Prius in it and prices the inverters at $50... so contemplating seeing if the inverter is still in the car and getting it.

Posted: **Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:25 am**

TheSilverBuick wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:47 am I do not see these boards available on the evbmw webstore, are they still available for purchase? My local junkyard has a Gen 2 Prius in it and prices the inverters at $50... so contemplating seeing if the inverter is still in the car and getting it.

The "Blue Pill" based version is still available as a bare board, if you really want one.

Posted: **Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:09 pm**

Don't the bare boards require the small surface mount parts to be installed?

I'm not really afraid of assembling a board as I've done the basic solder work on my EFI ECU's (11 years and well over 100,000 miles and going strong), but the small stuff is far more challenging and not sure I have the fine hand motor skills for it.

Posted: **Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:32 pm**

TheSilverBuick wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:47 amI do not see these boards available on the evbmw webstore, are they still available for purchase? My local junkyard has a Gen 2 Prius in it and prices the inverters at $50... so contemplating seeing if the inverter is still in the car and getting it.

Damien has skipped around to follow what hardware he has around and what things people are helping him with.

I think he first had a Gen 3 and made those first boards. Those were challenging because there's lots of SMT stuff and the boards were pretty expensive to order with components placed. So you could pay a lot of money and get the boards pre-placed with SMT, or you could pay less but then have to do them all yourself.

Then Damien designed the Gen 2 to be entirely through-hole parts to be friendlier (and cheaper) to beginners, which involved searching for an STM32 that was already mounted to a board that could be through-hole. That turned out to be the "Blue Pill". So, his boards for that are what came out of that project. The current sensing connections on it are not good to go as-is, they need a few extra components. Also, lots of Blue Pills apparently use counterfeit STM32s, in a way that does actually matter for this project. So, some people have found that it simply won't work.

Then another community member was putting effort into the Gen 3, so the next round of boards Damien worked on was the Gen 3 again. This time from a new PCB source that has far more affordable component pricing if you use their inventory. So Damien redesigned the whole board to use their components instead. Also combined with new knowledge about the Gen 3 so other stuff is enabled.

Scrapping the through-hole requirement (because the new PCB source is so cost effective for placed components), Damien was going to redesign the Gen 2 board too, it's on his eventual to-do list. But that hasn't happened yet.

Alternatively, Johannes has in the meantime designed a bespoke Open Inverter board kit for use on the Gen 2, it has its own thread. This is a costlier option, but on a proven platform and will have everything you need kit-wise. I believe he's received the boards and one has arrived for Damien to test with when his manifesto of EV scrolls far enough for him to find time for it.

So there's certainly options.

Today: Blue Pill-based through-hole, probably will work for you.
Soon: Open Inverter's kit.
Eventually: Damien's redesigned Gen 2 boards pre-placed.

Posted: **Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:03 pm**

Thank you Matt. I'm not put off by the 350 euro price on the Gen 3 board.

Looking at webshop, I see my confusion, the difference between "Blue Pill" and "Blue Pill-based". The board is pretty cheap (30 euro!), but does have some SMD soldering work. I need to price the components to compare costs.

(let me know if I should be starting a thread on this)
Lastly, is there a "feature" list of what the Gen 2 and Gen 3 inverters have as a comparison between the two? The wiki has plenty of Gen 3 info, but not much on Gen 2.

I would certainly like to go Gen 3, but a Gen 2 might be sitting down the street for me to get. Thanks again!

Posted: **Fri Jun 12, 2020 7:12 pm**

MattsAwesomeStuff wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 5:32 pm
TheSilverBuick wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 12:47 amI do not see these boards available on the evbmw webstore, are they still available for purchase? My local junkyard has a Gen 2 Prius in it and prices the inverters at $50... so contemplating seeing if the inverter is still in the car and getting it.
Damien has skipped around to follow what hardware he has around and what things people are helping him with.

I think he first had a Gen 3 and made those first boards. Those were challenging because there's lots of SMT stuff and the boards were pretty expensive to order with components placed. So you could pay a lot of money and get the boards pre-placed with SMT, or you could pay less but then have to do them all yourself.

Then Damien designed the Gen 2 to be entirely through-hole parts to be friendlier (and cheaper) to beginners, which involved searching for an STM32 that was already mounted to a board that could be through-hole. That turned out to be the "Blue Pill". So, his boards for that are what came out of that project. The current sensing connections on it are not good to go as-is, they need a few extra components. Also, lots of Blue Pills apparently use counterfeit STM32s, in a way that does actually matter for this project. So, some people have found that it simply won't work.

Then another community member was putting effort into the Gen 3, so the next round of boards Damien worked on was the Gen 3 again. This time from a new PCB source that has far more affordable component pricing if you use their inventory. So Damien redesigned the whole board to use their components instead. Also combined with new knowledge about the Gen 3 so other stuff is enabled.

Scrapping the through-hole requirement (because the new PCB source is so cost effective for placed components), Damien was going to redesign the Gen 2 board too, it's on his eventual to-do list. But that hasn't happened yet.

Alternatively, Johannes has in the meantime designed a bespoke Open Inverter board kit for use on the Gen 2, it has its own thread. This is a costlier option, but on a proven platform and will have everything you need kit-wise. I believe he's received the boards and one has arrived for Damien to test with when his manifesto of EV scrolls far enough for him to find time for it.

So there's certainly options.

Today: Blue Pill-based through-hole, probably will work for you.
Soon: Open Inverter's kit.
Eventually: Damien's redesigned Gen 2 boards pre-placed.

That's a brilliant summary of the current situation.
Thanks Matt

Posted: **Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:22 am**

TheSilverBuick wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:03 pmLooking at webshop, I see my confusion, the difference between "Blue Pill" and "Blue Pill-based".

I bet you're confused between Gen 2 and Gen 3. I see only this one for Gen 2: https://evbmw.com/index.php/evbmw-websh ... ogic-board

The board is pretty cheap (30 euro!), but does have some SMD soldering work.

It has no SMD work. That's the point of it. You're probably looking at the wrong board.

I need to price the components to compare costs.

Does this help?: http://www.digikey.ca/short/zpfj75 (it has an "error" because of a component update, just click "submit")

I ordered extra of some things in there, you could trim it a bit. It cost me $70 CAD at the time ($50 US or so, I think, or maybe it was $70US, can't remember).

You'll also need to purchase a Blue Pill from a reputable source. And an "ST-Link" (eBay, everywhere). And a wifi module (from Damien, Open Inverter, or buy a "Wemos D1 Mini" like some of us have done). The wifi module from Damien or Open Inverter is less capable and more expensive, but plugs right into the board. The D1 you'll have to wire up yourself (just 4 wires, not a big deal).

Lastly, is there a "feature" list of what the Gen 2 and Gen 3 inverters have as a comparison between the two? The wiki has plenty of Gen 3 info, but not much on Gen 2.

That's because it was mostly me doing the wiki on the Gen 2, and I've had it sit on a shelf for 4 months :p

Power-wise the Gen3 is capable of more (680hp between MG1 and MG2), but, I dunno if that'll actually be a limit for you.

Damien's latest Gen 3 board has working current sensors and I think is ready to go for using the boost converter as a charger. I don't know if the Blue Pill can do that, but I don't understand the difference in hardware much.

I think the Gen 3 can also dual-drive the inverters? I'm fuzzy on the details, you probably shouldn't use me as a source.

I would certainly like to go Gen 3, but a Gen 2 might be sitting down the street for me to get. Thanks again!

Gen 3's have a more common flaw where they die. So do check yours soon enough to get your money back if it's fried. Gen 2s are generally cheaper but, the deals some people here are getting... hardly makes a difference. I paid $150 for my Gen 2 I think. Gen 3s were thought to be around double that at the time. But people are picking them up for under a hundred if they ask a local scrapper.

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:26 pm**

Thanks Matt for the clarifications and direction of things to look at.

*edit* I feel like this is a dumb and obvious question so bare with me, but does the new Gen 2 controller that just hit the Openinverter shop become the thing to purchase to run the Gen 2 inverters instead of the piece together directions you provided? Thanks!

https://openinverter.org/shop/index.php ... duct_id=63

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:07 pm**

TheSilverBuick wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:26 pmdoes the new Gen 2 controller that just hit the Openinverter shop become the thing to purchase to run the Gen 2 inverters instead of the piece together directions you provided? Thanks!

I'm not sure what directions of mine you're referring to, but I think I get your question.

Earlier I said:
---
Today: Blue Pill-based through-hole, probably will work for you.
Soon: Open Inverter's kit.
Eventually: Damien's redesigned Gen 2 boards pre-placed.
---

This was the "soon" option. The future is now. It's now up for sale.

Damien's was a proof of concept, bare board. Johannes' is pretty much plug and play, full kit, ready to go with just a little final soldering.

Johannes' is 10x the price, but you're not buying all the components and little bits and pieces. It has a waterproof enclosure, working current sensors, more functionality, and it's pre-programmed if that's a challenge for you.

Unless you have a bench full of components, by the time you order components you're likely to be spending at least ~3x what the bare board from Damien costs, so, cost-wise you want to compare more like only 3x the price to get Johannes' kit.

As to whether that's the thing to purchase... that's up to you.

If your question was just that you were wondering if this new thing from the OpenInverter shop is the thing I was talking about as coming soon, yes, it is.

Posted: **Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:39 pm**

Okay, I'm catching up.

The confusion I am having is that "Blue Pill" is a generic electronic component, not an EV specific product, and in the description of the board on the main bare board page it says requires SMD soldering, but that is incorrect. (https://www.evbmw.com/index.php/evbmw-w ... are-boards)

Your digikey link just gets me 20 resistors after the website processes. Is there a parts list in PDF, text, html, etc? I need to order some hall sensors from digikey anyways so it may be the time to make this order. I'm still considering the OpenInverter one, but $200 could get me the MGR unit!

Thanks again!

*Edit, found the bill of materials! https://github.com/damienmaguire/Prius- ... V1_BOM.ods

MattsAwesomeStuff wrote: ↑Sat Jun 13, 2020 12:22 am
TheSilverBuick wrote: ↑Fri Jun 12, 2020 6:03 pmLooking at webshop, I see my confusion, the difference between "Blue Pill" and "Blue Pill-based".
I bet you're confused between Gen 2 and Gen 3. I see only this one for Gen 2: https://evbmw.com/index.php/evbmw-websh ... ogic-board

The board is pretty cheap (30 euro!), but does have some SMD soldering work.
It has no SMD work. That's the point of it. You're probably looking at the wrong board.

I need to price the components to compare costs.
Does this help?: http://www.digikey.ca/short/zpfj75 (it has an "error" because of a component update, just click "submit")

I ordered extra of some things in there, you could trim it a bit. It cost me $70 CAD at the time ($50 US or so, I think, or maybe it was $70US, can't remember).

Posted: **Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:27 am**

TheSilverBuick wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:39 pmin the description of the board on the main bare board page it says requires SMD soldering, but that is incorrect.

I was going to say no, it doesn't but you're right, in the footer it does. Just a boilerplate on every item.

It's through-hole only.

Posted: **Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:05 am**

TheSilverBuick wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:39 pmYour digikey link just gets me 20 resistors after the website processes.

No, I mentioned that. There's an error with those and that's why it comes up with that.

Just click the "submit" button to clear the error, and then it takes you to the full shopping list.

Posted: **Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:21 am**

My advice to people on this thread is use this :
https://openinverter.org/shop/index.php ... duct_id=63

Posted: **Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:23 am**

MattsAwesomeStuff wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:05 am
TheSilverBuick wrote: ↑Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:39 pmYour digikey link just gets me 20 resistors after the website processes.
No, I mentioned that. There's an error with those and that's why it comes up with that.

Just click the "submit" button to clear the error, and then it takes you to the full shopping list.

Hot Dang! Sure enough! Thanks again. With the hall sensors I need to purchase it'll kick the total up enough to get free shipping.

Jack Bauer wrote: ↑Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:21 am My advice to people on this thread is use this :
https://openinverter.org/shop/index.php ... duct_id=63

Noted!

Just picked these up today for $55 each. Just looking to run a ~55kw MGR down around 15-20kw.

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