openinverter forum

Any progress ?

I’m interested to test this out on my dc motored project, see how it compares with my home built controller, wound be any time soon, battery upgrade and other stuff to finish first.

Progress.....not with this yet. But to avert frustration I installed my J1172 receptacle in the gas filler. Added necessary 50 amp fuse and relay for my cabin heater, relays for my cooling fan and circulation pump for inverter and charger. Tested charger controller can communications. Installed heater and pump for battery temperature control. Installed controller temperature control (for fan and pump). Installed Volt and Amp display and connected to shunt. Cleaned the interior of vehicle with Sprayway products (works great, no more mold, interior shines and seats all look brand new along with interior door covers). All done outdoors in near freezing weather.......needed to make some progress.

I summarized a lot of the questions I had and state I left my controller for your inquiring minds.
Please take a look and see if you know the answers to my questions and make suggestions for debugging.
When I press the accelerator nothing blows up, nothing happens.....it sits there looking very pretty with no smoke and no action.

Damien, are you there?

Questions concerning "how it all wires up" (post 14 above)

1. If I wire all three output phases of MG1 together and wire all three output phases of MG2 together and wire both those bundles to the positive terminal of my Warp 9 DC motor, will this interfear with the operation of the inverter to provide power to the DC motor? If it does, what additional diodes/parts/wiring are necessary in order to make this scenario work properly?

2. The DC controller has two PWM outputs: for MG1 and MG2. If the output PWM for MG1 is connected to multiple MG1 Speed signal Wave pins (pin 4 GUU, pin 5 GVU and pin 6 GWU) to activate the three associated IGBTs simultaneously, will this have an adverse effect on the system to provide power to the DC Motor? Same question for output to MG2? If the simultaneous initiation of the PWM is a problem, what is the solution to providing the full potential to the motor?

3. Is it true that MG1 and MG2 shutdown pins 14 and 25 must be connected to 12 positive in order to use the MG1 and MG2 inverters?

4. What are the voltage values that MG1 inverter fail (pin 22) and MG2 inverter fail (pin 27) have for success and failure?

5. The C5 six pin connector, pin 1 needs 12v+ in order to activate the DC/DC converter. Does this have any affect on the MG1 and MG2 inverter functions? Does the B+ wide blade Connection need to be connected to the 12 volt Battery + terminal in order to have C5 pin 1 to be effective?

6. Are the MG1 and MG2 inverters independent of the DC/DC converter (C5 pin 1 connection)?

7. Does the DC motor negative terminal connect to the inverter high voltage negative bus along with the high voltage battery negative?

8. Does the Inverter Ground (pin 16) need to be grounded to chassis at all times?

9. The two pin connector (12 volt plus and minus) separate from the 32 pin connector in the inverter is assumed to have negative grounded to chassis at all times and have positive connected to 12 volt battery when the key for the vehicle is turned on and after the pre-charge sequence has completed, then 12 volt positive disconnected when the key is turned off? Is this correct?

10. The inverter case should be grounded to the chassis. Is this correct?

11. Starting Sequence
Check:
Inverter case is grounded to chassis
Inverter ground, pin 16 is connected to chassis ground
High Voltage + Battery Pack (167 volts) is available to inverter
High Voltage - Battery Pack connected to Inverter - and motor -
Accelerator input (5 volt, signal, ground) connected to DC card.
MG1 pwm and MG2 pwm connected to dc card.
MG1 pwm connected to pins 4, 5 and 6 on 32 pin connector
MG2 pwm connected to pins 9, 10 and 11 on 32 pin connector
Wide blade B+ connected to 12 volt battery positive.

Key turned on
2 pin 12 volt+ connection turns high
C5 pin 1 (DC/DC) turns high simultaneously


Pre charge completes, 167 volts connected to inverter
Check transmission is in neutral
Press accelerator
Accelerator signal rises

This is as far as I get, nothing else happens.

Thanks to all of you who made great suggestions and helped me out.
And for all of you in my same boat, I'm sorry I haven't been able to make any progress.
I tried......and when I succeed I'll document the steps necessary to help you activate your DC-motor-based EVs with Prius Gen 2 Inverter.

Eric and the White Arrow.

The dc-dc converter is fully separated from the inverter other than the fact it’s fed off the dc bus, it will not interfere with inverter control and yes the case needs to be attached to chassis ground,

Jack Bauer wrote: ↑Thu May 14, 2020 8:17 am On this subject I have redesigned this board to utilise JLCPCB parts and have a bunch of ten on the way fully populated bar the screw connector. Once received I will do a video showing how it all wires up.

I would like to have one of these boards. I don't see them on your web page. If you don't have any, can you please add the redesigned files to github so that I can have jlcpcb make one or two for me?

Thank you.

Eric and the White Arrow.

Have you checked output with a scope to see if you are getting pwm? This is one of the first steps setting up these systems since it allows you to test for inverter function without needing to fully power on. If you aren't getting pwm out then we shouldn't even be talking about any high voltage.

I just got a single channel hand held scope. I'll see what I can find on the output of the DC controller (pwm generator).

Eric

Ok I have a spare gen2 kicking around so I will try and make a dc controller and test it on my RX8 to see how it compares to my own, does anyone have the info on phase current sensor outputs and and other useful values to hand as I’ll port over my arduino control to do it, I presume to drive the igbts high I just need to send a +12v pwm

Current sensor info is all over the gen2 thread, I seem to remember it being 7.5v to -7.5v over what, 500 amps or so of range?

Check the gen2 wiki for pinouts, MSDN is one important wire.

Well, I had to put this project on hold for a minute as I got tied up with some other new hobbies.... anyway it looks like I'm going to have to sacrifice a few more inverters so we can figure this out...... cooked 2 of the trying the conventional 3 phases bridged to motor positive and negative to inverter neg, that's not going to work.... Time to try the H-bridge?? I managed to Frankenstein an Arduino and Damien board together (to use the transistors). And I've got code on it to produce 2 pwm signals centered at 50% one goes up with throttle the other down. I'm not super confident this is going to spare the life of my third inverter but it worked for that nic james guy? If that does not work I could also try bridging all 6 outputs from mg1 and mg2 together and hooking that to motor positive?? what do you guys think?? luckily my local junkyard has plenty of gen 2 inverters for cheap..... Lets blow some inverters... FOR SCIENCE!!!!!

I think I may have mentioned before... Try using it as a low side switch? Connect motor + to battery + and then the motor - to the inverter connection. Or how about adding external flyback diodes (flyback is what cooked them IIRC?)

https://nicjam.es/projects/derptruck/part_2/ There is some good data here on using the gen 2 as a dc motor controller with the limiting factor being that the gen 2 has an output of 40kw total for a brushed DC motor with a glance at page three
https://nicjam.es/projects/derptruck/part_3/

I ordered some more parts frim digikey to build another damien-dc-motor-controller. When I first started to build my own card I had ordered 3 boards. So I decided to start again fresh.

I added each part, checking to make sure there were no shorts on each contact for each component.
And checked voltages between 12v+ and each component, and then between each component and the next component interfaces. I did this very slowly. I have enough parts to build a third one if needed.

I made mistakes and corrected them, using the board diagram and circuit diagrams for Power Supply, PWM Generator, Output Driver and Connectors provided by Damien.

This AM I took the new driver board mounted in a protective box out to my White Arrow BMW E36.
I slowly connected all inputs and outputs.

12V input
Ground
Throttle input
Reverse input
Brake input

There are two other connectors labeled in the Connectors schematic: GFIv and MFIv but are not connected to any other component on the board. I let these alone.

I checked accelerator input: 0v at rest and 4.86v with pedal to the metal with 5 volts input to the accelerator pedal.

Turned the key on.

12 volts in.......led on dc controller card lit up.
Pins 22 and 27 on inverter were both 6.7 volts indicating both motor inverters did not fail.
MG1 and MG2 pins on the inverter showed 15 volts each (prius inverter set these voltages internally).

Connected my one channel hand held DSO Shell JYE Tech scope to the MG1 output line.
fiddled with the settings until I got a steady wave. Stepped on the accelerator and no change in the wave.

I'm a software guy. Don't know what I am doing with this scope.

Thanks for listening. In two weeks I go to the hospital to have my left shoulder replaced. So I will be out of commission for several weeks.

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.

Eric Soneson
1996 BMW 318 White Arrow with 9 inch Netgain motor and Prius Gen 2 controller. Looks pretty....doesn't move.

I have run out of options and time.
Monetary incentive is on the table.
Email me at esoneson@protonmail.com to discuss.
Thank you all for your patience and help.
Eric Soneson

I would help as I’m currently working on a Frankensteined gen2 dc motor controller, but I am off for elbow replacement surgery in just a few days. So not going to be much help for a while, your dc controller board you’ve built should be generating a pwm to switch a transistor to pull the mg1 mg2 down to ground, you could easily test this is working right with a 12v light bulb, you shouldn’t be seen any wave on the scope until you start demanding throttle, unless you’ve scoped in down so far your watching dc ripple!

esoneson wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 6:20 pm Monetary incentive is on the table.

I do believe both Damien and Johannes offer by-the-hour troubleshooting and such.

Johannes does for sure, I've seen it. But if Damien can be bribed, it might be more direct to do that with his own design.

I have a feeling Johannes has much higher availability than Damien though.

Oh and with that scope, connect the red clip to 12v+ and the black clip to one of the outputs of the Damien card.

I've got the same scope, quite a value for the price!
You are almost there!

esoneson wrote: ↑Sun May 02, 2021 6:20 pm Thank you all for your patience and help.
Eric Soneson

Nevermind the inverter power MG1/MG2 PWM output for the moment, have you checked that the controller is outputting PWM corresponding to your accelerator input?

I've just come by this thread and I'm keen to help out where I can to find a difinitive answer on how to use these inverters for DC traction.
I have a few scopes here and an IGBT or two but no inverters yet. Still, if I can be if any help...

How frustrating this must be Eric. Wishing you all the best with your surgery.

Eric looks lie there is a typo in the wiki MG1 shutdown is listed as pin 14 but i believe this is wrong and mg1 shutdown is pin 20 pin 14 actually goes off to the boost converter and i believe its the boost converter temp signal,

this pinout from the gen2 development thread is lifted from the workshop manual i believe

Ev8 wrote: ↑Sun May 30, 2021 11:23 amEric looks lie there is a typo in the wiki MG1 shutdown is listed as pin 14 but i believe this is wrong and mg1 shutdown in pin 20 pin 14 actually goes off to the boost converter and i believe its the boost converter temp signal,

I think that was me, and I think it was based on Damien's notes. It's possible I made a typo, I definitely didn't figure any of this stuff out, I just tried to help document it.

I wonder if anyone's actually made a Prius Gen 2 project yet, and got it to run. If they have, then you should compare sources with them and see what is or isn't working.

I’m working on a gen2 project now so will know soon enough

It occured to me that maybe, given that somebody (sorry I forget who) on here demonstrated that the Prius Gen3 inverter is current limited to 1000A per phase, the next best option for this pre-packed DC motor controller might be a Yaris(/Auris/Prius C) given it's similarity in build to the Gen3 and similarity in price to the Gen2?

So this was something I was going to look at and still might, just I happened to have a couple of gen2s to hand so thought I’d get one working first.

I can confirm that the wiki is wrong for mg1 enable as I mentioned above, I had to resort to bench testing on the kitchen table as my wife has taken over the man lab to work from home!

I say, that's a rare swap!