openinverter forum

MattsAwesomeStuff wrote: ↑Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:24 pm

johu wrote: ↑Thu Aug 27, 2020 7:37 pmHe doubts the Twizy motor can sustain 110 km/h for 20 minutes. That would need 20kW and the motor is rated 13kW for 1 minute.

Too late to matter, but for conversation...

The thing about moving at 110km/h... is that you have air moving past at 110km/h. That's quite a bit of forced air cooling by definition.

What I want is to use other people's projects to fulfill my personal curiosity. I want to say "Try it and see what happens!" I want to know! :p

Air drag at 140km/h doubles that at 90km/h. Air cooled motor temp at 110km/h remains around 100degC. I use fan at the end of motor shaft.
Mazda with its 28kw air cooled motor can sustain 160km/h for like 5min before motor temperature goes over 180degC.
Liquid cooling is way better and you can't force air at speed when you are in a roundabout crossing in the city. I found out motor generally overheats more in stop and go traffic than on highway... If you watch your speed of course.

In Touran I observed under normal driving the temperature gauge doesn't move (because it only starts moving above 50°C). Only if you throw it in 4th gear and drive at 170 km/h you will see temperature rise quickly - despite the extra air mass that hits the radiator.

Similar in Polo but it also heats up an prolonged uphill stretches even when just going 60 or 70 km/h. Touran doesn't break a sweat in that case.

Just called TÜV Göttingen to inquire about our Audi plans, especially EMC. His take at it is that only components that belong together to not need to be EMC tested. I.e. Leaf Motor with Leaf inverter. But Smart motor with Prius inverter would need testing
The car is pre 2002 so only the radiation must be measured, but still. We will need to find out about the cost or finally switch to full Prius drive train.

johu wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:37 am Just called TÜV Göttingen to inquire about our Audi plans, especially EMC. His take at it is that only components that belong together to not need to be EMC tested. I.e. Leaf Motor with Leaf inverter. But Smart motor with Prius inverter would need testing
The car is pre 2002 so only the radiation must be measured, but still. We will need to find out about the cost or finally switch to full Prius drive train.

How this went?
Also planning to do A2 conversion.

geduxaz wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:57 am

johu wrote: ↑Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:37 am Just called TÜV Göttingen to inquire about our Audi plans, especially EMC. His take at it is that only components that belong together to not need to be EMC tested. I.e. Leaf Motor with Leaf inverter. But Smart motor with Prius inverter would need testing
The car is pre 2002 so only the radiation must be measured, but still. We will need to find out about the cost or finally switch to full Prius drive train.

How this went?
Also planning to do A2 conversion.

I recommend you use Prius TX and inverter. Easier to fit and it will work for sure. For comparison Twizzy motor is air cooled and low voltage. A2 would be able to accept VW Golf GTE pack directly. This would be really good low cost conversion.

geduxaz wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:57 am How this went?
Also planning to do A2 conversion.

The conversion is on halt. Thus far we had settled on Prius Gen2 inverter, smart motor and Leaf 24 kWh pack.
Prius transmission would be beneficial for registering, because no EMC testing is required. But I think it is too tall to fit, the ABS and brake lines live directly above the transmission.

johu wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:07 pm The conversion is on halt. Thus far we had settled on Prius Gen2 inverter, smart motor and Leaf 24 kWh pack.
Prius transmission would be beneficial for registering, because no EMC testing is required. But I think it is too tall to fit, the ABS and brake lines live directly above the transmission.

What about Smart inverter?

Why not all Smart EV kit? Inverter/motor/reduction gear?
Have an eye on full damaged smart for 1.8k without battery.
Also bought A2 3L version for conversion (45kW in stock).
3L version is ~300kg lighter than other A2 versions (like 1.4TDI).

Have anybody tried to run SMART inverter?

johu wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 5:07 pm

geduxaz wrote: ↑Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:57 am How this went?
Also planning to do A2 conversion.

The conversion is on halt. Thus far we had settled on Prius Gen2 inverter, smart motor and Leaf 24 kWh pack.
Prius transmission would be beneficial for registering, because no EMC testing is required. But I think it is too tall to fit, the ABS and brake lines live directly above the transmission.

So far we don't have a smart inverter, and if we did it would be unhacked. Also there is no DC-DC converter built in. But of course the benefit would be much easier TÜV

johu wrote: ↑Mon Jul 12, 2021 6:43 pm So far we don't have a smart inverter, and if we did it would be unhacked. Also there is no DC-DC converter built in. But of course the benefit would be much easier TÜV

As soon as i arrive home i will start working on Outlander rear motor and inverter. There is a friend who is working on Renault Twingo RS with complete Outlander components. My idea is to install Outlander drive in my Mazda and develop a system to integrate Motor, inverter, charger and DCDC. I will use my DUE board with CAN bus.
Later on i might add Chademo also...

You could go Outlander CAN route with Audi A2. Components can be priced quite low (you need to search the net), it is low profile and since it works with CAN you can also use Leaf pack with it.

nice to see A2 conversion, I also worked on my A2 conversion, but now have a brake because lack of time, I went with rote of leaf motor+inverter mounted to original gearbox:

plans for finish will be to put leaf charger on it (looks like it will fit quite easily, but needs some CAN messages to start charge, hope to get to this some time later).
as for batteries, this car have so called "space frame" and it floor is not structural, so it can be cut and will be perfect place for battery, here are some basic dimensions:

I also wanted to remove original ECU, started to search some CAN info but not tried anything:
https://a2-freun.de/forum/forums/topic/ ... imulation/
http://ev-a2.blogspot.com/2013/06/can-b ... arted.html (some info in comments)

Very good progress! Surprised a Leaf stack fits.
To my knowledge Audis use the same base protocol as VW, so you will find more info on my Touran conversion page: https://openinverter.org/wiki/Touran_Conversion

Thanks, will check,
Leaf motor is not so big, comparing to space available in A2

New life to this project: instead of commencing my Lupo conversion I will now convert the Audi A2 with the same ingredients. So my friend Thomas pays for parts, I do the conversion for free and get to do videos on it and of course learn tons of stuff in the progress. Stay tuned. Car is already purchased.

So Prius gen 2 transaxle and Inverter? If so, dual motor or removal of Mg1? I've decided to not go the yaris inverter and dual motor board way at the moment due to identical 'TUV' issues I'll have. Do you have to respect original weight of the vehicle?

johu wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 4:49 pm New life to this project: instead of commencing my Lupo conversion I will now convert the Audi A2 with the same ingredients. So my friend Thomas pays for parts, I do the conversion for free and get to do videos on it and of course learn tons of stuff in the progress. Stay tuned. Car is already purchased.

That's great news - i personally think the A2 is the perfect car for the conversion

RetroZero wrote: ↑Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:49 pm So Prius gen 2 transaxle and Inverter? If so, dual motor or removal of Mg1? I've decided to not go the yaris inverter and dual motor board way at the moment due to identical 'TUV' issues I'll have. Do you have to respect original weight of the vehicle?

I will start out with just MG2 to evaluate its performance. Where did you find the various transmission connectors, i.e. resolver and temp sensors?

Mine box came with all connectors.
Do you need to use parking brake motor to make it TUV legal? How you would control it?

geduxaz wrote: ↑Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:27 pm Mine box came with all connectors.
Do you need to use parking brake motor to make it TUV legal? How you would control it?

You need to have a parking brake. However you choose to activate it you need to have intentional action to engage it or relese it.
Now if the parking brake is already on the car i would remove the transmission lock mechanism. Its just another hazard while driving...

Mine came with the connectors too. Will be fitting an electric actuator to the toothed shaft where the original stepper motor was for Park.
I haven't got enough battery to test performance, but 50kw from Mg2 is more than enough for a lupo. I'm thinking of making a blank off plate and use Mg1 only hooked up to the original gear box. Space and weight is critical in these small fwd city cars.

johu wrote: ↑Sat Nov 13, 2021 10:37 am I will start out with just MG2 to evaluate its performance. Where did you find the various transmission connectors, i.e. resolver and temp sensors?

I don't know the specific connectors, but I'd try looking at Sumitomo connectors on auto-click.co.uk, they have fairly good photos of the common ones. I might actually want to order elsewhere though as I still don't have much faith in the changed British customs stuff.

I think it could be Yazaki. They look very similar but I only found the correct keying in the Yazaki

The other resolver, the temperature sensors and the two jacks for A/C and DC/DC converter look to be the same.

https://www.auto-click.co.uk/6-way/yaza ... ct_id=1113

Received the connectors and they fit. Added to wiki

Can you confirm if this pinout is correct for MG2 resolver?

I cant spin mg2 on throttle. Searching all the wiring for issues. Potnom does not rise.

arber333 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 13, 2021 8:59 pm
You need to have a parking brake.

Is hand brake = parking brake?