JaniK wrote: ↑Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:12 am
If you rotate the motor with your hand, that would be same as regen right? So my guess is that it will show as negative torque to ask for regen? I know nothing but it sound like that to me consider my option and please correct me if I am wrong, everybody wins
Hi JaniK,
Tried that. Powered up the Outlander PHEV REMCU inverter and motor and supplied HV (36V). Rotated the motor by hand and there was zero torque registered (on the CAN), whilst there was non-zero RPM and non-zero HV. So I think it may be more complicated than suggested. I will experiment more but right now I've got to figure out how to send a torque request via the CAN Bus.
Mark
Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:09 am
by arber333
markc5442 wrote: ↑Sun Feb 21, 2021 4:17 pm
Hi JaniK,
Tried that. Powered up the Outlander PHEV REMCU inverter and motor and supplied HV (36V). Rotated the motor by hand and there was zero torque registered (on the CAN), whilst there was non-zero RPM and non-zero HV. So I think it may be more complicated than suggested. I will experiment more but right now I've got to figure out how to send a torque request via the CAN Bus.
Mark
No, that wont do by hand. Every EV i drove they allways had a regen ramp. RPMs at low end where no regen would occur.
When you get past this ramp regen starts to wake up. So i think one would need to rotate motor faster. Preferaly through the gearbox.
Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:57 pm
by bobby_come_lately
LRBen wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:56 pm
Finally got this motor tuned and running on a Prius gen 2 inverter. My syncofs was 65000.
I have taken the differential apart in order to get the input sleeve the motor shaft would normally connect into. My plan with this is to get it machined and attached to the clutch hub of the gearbox. On first inspection this gear doesn't look as hardened as previous gears I have worked with. So machining should be easier.
Can I check whether the pole pair count on the wiki matched with your experience (10)? I have a rear inverter to play with but only a front motor at the moment, so keen to know how different they are.
Thanks.
Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:03 pm
by LRBen
bobby_come_lately wrote: ↑Mon Feb 22, 2021 3:57 pm
Can I check whether the pole pair count on the wiki matched with your experience (10)? I have a rear inverter to play with but only a front motor at the moment, so keen to know how different they are.
Thanks.
I had it setup for 5 pole pairs, so it matches the wiki information.
Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 7:41 pm
by bobby_come_lately
Great - thank you. Sadly doesn't match the front motors so I probably can't mix and match.
Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Posted: Mon Feb 22, 2021 8:06 pm
by arber333
Outlander rear motor is decisively 10pole. Resolver is also 10pole.
Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Posted: Thu Mar 04, 2021 8:34 pm
by UStas
LRBen wrote: ↑Thu Feb 11, 2021 5:56 pm
Finally got this motor tuned and running on a Prius gen 2 inverter. My syncofs was 65000.
I have taken the differential apart in order to get the input sleeve the motor shaft would normally connect into. My plan with this is to get it machined and attached to the clutch hub of the gearbox. On first inspection this gear doesn't look as hardened as previous gears I have worked with. So machining should be easier.
Perfect !
Can you, please, share your inverter brain configuration. I have starting my Outlander rear axle with Prius gen3 inverter, hovewer it spins not so smooth .
Can you, please, share your inverter brain configuration. I have starting my Outlander rear axle with Prius gen3 inverter, hovewer it spins not so smooth .
I think Outlander motor was caracterized as low inertia IPM motor and that makes it really twitchy. Probably you need to add a brake or mass of sorts to the motor shaft as on its own it goes to max RPM pretty quick. Maybe you should tune up your throttle so you add only small travel.
Not sure how similar settings are for the prius gen 2 and gen 3. I know you need deadtime for gen 3 but none for gen 2.
Your motor seems pretty smooth on the throttle. My throtramp setting were very low, which made the operation allot smoother.
Thank a lot!
I Want to compare another configuration because my motor is jumping during I release a throttle.
It may be by wrong throttle config, but I'm starting to assume that issue with brain board. For example: Trouble occure when I start a plot with Huebner software. Probably it may be STM32 microprocessor bug? I don`t know how it can be checked.
Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Posted: Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:49 am
by arber333
UStas wrote: ↑Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:55 am
Thank a lot!
I Want to compare another configuration because my motor is jumping during I release a throttle.
It may be by wrong throttle config, but I'm starting to assume that issue with brain board. For example: Trouble occure when I start a plot with Huebner software. Probably it may be STM32 microprocessor bug? I don`t know how it can be checked.
Go through parameters and see the wiki. https://openinverter.org/wiki/Parameters
I think you can change either throtcur or throtramp to get softer throttle response.
Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 11:35 am
by LRBen
Has anyone hooked up the motor temperature sensor yet? I'm just testing them and can't seem to get any readings from my board.
From what I can tell there are two sensors. So four wires. I have found the matched pairs, they both read around 18k ohms when the circuit is open.
However if I wire up the motor temp wires from the control board this seems to raise the resistance to infinity. Once disconnected the resistance go back to around 18k. This happens no matter the polarity of the wires.
Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Posted: Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:35 pm
by Ctwidle
Could anyone on this thread comment on the possibility of mounting this unit so that it runs in reverse? The Toyota/Lexus MGR that I was planning to use uses the final drive gear to throw cooling/lubricating oil around the inside so it wouldn’t be happy long term running backwards. I’m thinking of mounting a complete Outlander unit facing backwards in the engine bay of my Super Beetle so I can avoid having to use the original VW gearbox. With the diff section at the front it will probably line up quite well with the original half shafts though I won’t be sure till I get my hands on one.
Thanks in advance,
Chris
Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Posted: Sat Jun 12, 2021 9:20 am
by UStas
Ctwidle wrote: ↑Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:35 pm
Could anyone on this thread comment on the possibility of mounting this unit so that it runs in reverse? The Toyota/Lexus MGR that I was planning to use uses the final drive gear to throw cooling/lubricating oil around the inside so it wouldn’t be happy long term running backwards. I’m thinking of mounting a complete Outlander unit facing backwards in the engine bay of my Super Beetle so I can avoid having to use the original VW gearbox. With the diff section at the front it will probably line up quite well with the original half shafts though I won’t be sure till I get my hands on one.
Thanks in advance,
Chris
I mounted Outlandar rear axel in my Opel Tigra. In short term I can not see any problem. As I see for lubrication can be enough splashes from main gear. See a picture - in normal main gear rotate counterclockwise if it will rotate clockwise oil will got to all gears too.
Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Posted: Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:48 am
by Ctwidle
cпасибо UStas, just what I needed. I bought a Mitsubishi axle yesterday. The Lexus MGR didn’t just splash, it had to run into galleries to cool and lubricate so wouldn’t be happy running backwards. I may now have three options, run it as native - but would need to cut into the car floor, run it in reverse - would need to fabricate an engine mount and would loose space in the boot/trunk, take off the diff and attach to an original gearbox - neat, but I would need a rebuilt gearbox. There’s always something to keep us busy,
Chris
Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:12 am
by UStas
Ctwidle wrote: ↑Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:48 am
cпасибо UStas, just what I needed. I bought a Mitsubishi axle yesterday. The Lexus MGR didn’t just splash, it had to run into galleries to cool and lubricate so wouldn’t be happy running backwards. I may now have three options, run it as native - but would need to cut into the car floor, run it in reverse - would need to fabricate an engine mount and would loose space in the boot/trunk, take off the diff and attach to an original gearbox - neat, but I would need a rebuilt gearbox. There’s always something to keep us busy,
Chris
Which car do you rebuild?
In normaly Outlander MGR orientation is - reductor at front (main gear rotate counterclockwise). If you want to mount motor in front (FWD) yo need to change orientation - reductor at rear, motor at front. If you want to use Lexus MGR you dont need change orientation - reductor is already at rear. And lubrication stay normal.
If there is your topic - Toyota MGR Transaxle - Alternative Orientations?
You will have right orientation - reductor at front
Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Posted: Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:54 pm
by Ctwidle
I was installing a Lexus MGR but it seems that it is not proving to be very capable. I didn’t have much money invested in it so I have decided to switch to the Mitsubishi unit. I am currently working on a mounting system that bolts directly to the ‘72 VW Beetle without any structural changes to the chassis. I should update my ‘Yet another Voltswagen’ project thread.m
Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:30 am
by UStas
Earlier I tried to use Lexus MGR too, but Outlander MGR have much more potential:
Liquid cooling system in stock,
more magnet field area,
more section of phase conductors,
more tork.
For RWD car it is perfect solution. For FWD too I think...
If combine it with stock inverter under CAN VCU it will SUPER Solution!!! Waiting for VCU
Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Posted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:44 am
by Ctwidle
Me too! However I still have a Yaris inverter that I believe has the potential to be multi functional.
C
Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:14 pm
by Ctwidle
/(
Sorry about the reflection!
No electrical progress but confirmation that the motor fits neatly in the back of a 72 Super Beetle. Fixed to original VW mounts with no structural changes. Should be plenty of room for an inverter etc.
For anyone else using a Mitsubishi rear motor - make sure you get the drive shafts with it. I only want to use the inner cv joint to graft onto the VW shafts but there seems to be no stock of none oem parts and Mitsubishi quote $960 each for them ex Japan!
Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Posted: Wed Jul 21, 2021 9:53 pm
by LRBen
I did look into the inner CV joint for the rear Outlander motor when I was going to go down the same route. From memory the inner CV joints have the same part number going back to previous models of Outlander, including non-hybrid models. So you might be able to pick up a pair of second hand joints for an older model for a bit cheaper, or maybe find some pattern parts.
I'm afraid I never wrote the part number down.
Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Posted: Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:45 am
by aot93
Good to see another motor getting mounted up.
The part number at least for 2018my on is 3717A029
I've not had much luck sourcing aftermarket ones.
If you are in the UK I can give you number of the specialist breaker I use, he will likely have some at a good price.
Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:04 am
by Ctwidle
Thanks for that, Local Mitsubishi dealer gave me the same part number even though mine is from a 2014. Best I can come up with at the moment is some third party full axles for $175 each but it seems such a shame to cut them up as I only need the inner CV joint. As always I am subject to the tyranny of distance with freight charges living near Brisbane, but it does have its compensations.
Chris
Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Posted: Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:58 am
by michaelh
I'm hoping to be in the same position as you somewhere down the track, but my project is FWD, which will no doubt add complication!
I'd be interested to know where you found the third party axles (I'm in Sydney).
I have a part number for the third party Inner CV joint only, made by GSP: 601548 (I've attached their catalogue), but I've only found them online in the UK. There is lots of spline information in there too, which might be useful.
Michael
Re: Mitsubishi Outlander rear axle
Posted: Sun Jul 25, 2021 11:03 am
by Ctwidle
Hi Michael, i will check out the link when I get home. I’m sorry I didn’t record the source of the full shafts as I am still hoping to find just the inner shafts. I have Installed the Outlander unit backwards to make it fit in the Beetle, I believe there is the same unit fitted into the front of a mini somewhere, not sure if it was on this forum.
Chris
consider my option and please correct me if I am wrong, everybody wins