Renault Zoe BMS

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Jack Bauer
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Renault Zoe BMS

Post by Jack Bauer »

Anyone looked at the Zoe BMS? Circling back around to this as I have a Zoe pack in the E46 touring that is going to need a bms soon. Cracked it open to have a look. Seems to be 12 groups and a chip called a L9763 in each group. Also seems to have been designed by LG.
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Re: Renault Zoe BMS

Post by DaveH »

L9763 is an ST part number. Presumably an ASIC?
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Re: Renault Zoe BMS

Post by jalovick »

Apparently, the L9763 chip is also used in the Chevy Volt/Opel Ampera BMS:
- https://www.edn.com/teardown-high-volta ... afe-power/

I can't quite see what the other chip is, but it appears to be a fairly common automotive processor:
- https://www.nxp.com/products/processors ... ns:MPC5510

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Re: Renault Zoe BMS

Post by paaa »

Thanks to Damien for the ZOE BMS. I have reviewed the Zoe wiring diagrams(utter muck) and have most of the pinout figured out. I have access to a damaged Zoe with no battery pack and a running Zoe(to record can traffic when working). Once I have wiring sorted I am going to make up single cell series pack and connect it with the BMS. Once I have damaged Zoe working with this trial battery I can then look into the CAN messages required to run the drive train.CAN ZE has a wealth of info that I have been trawling through. Hopefully we can make use of the Renault EVS as donor cars in the near future.
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Re: Renault Zoe BMS

Post by RetroZero »

Any news on the bms project?
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Re: Renault Zoe BMS

Post by paaa »

Nothing on 22kwh just yet but now have a fluence ze pack too that I can use to test with Zoe. Also have a line on a 40kwh pack so intrested in seeing what has changed from a can perspective.
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Re: Renault Zoe BMS

Post by hugow93 »

paaa wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:18 pm Nothing on 22kwh just yet but now have a fluence ze pack too that I can use to test with Zoe. Also have a line on a 40kwh pack so intrested in seeing what has changed from a can perspective.
Well, paaa. Have you had a chance to get any further with the Zoe kit?

I've a 22kwh pack complete with BMS and HVJB. Ideally I'd use them all if I could.
Just getting to the part of the build where I'm looking to pull together the HVJB now.
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| Siemens 1PV5135 Motor | Gen 2 Toyota Prius Inverter + OI Control Board | 24 kwh Renault Zoe battery |
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Re: Renault Zoe BMS

Post by paaa »

Havent ended up just eating Zoe with a 22kwh pack I got a loan of. Where did you get a Zoe pack from? I have been looking for one for a long time as a have a rolling damaged Zoe.
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Re: Renault Zoe BMS

Post by hugow93 »

paaa wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:11 am Havent ended up just eating Zoe with a 22kwh pack I got a loan of. Where did you get a Zoe pack from? I have been looking for one for a long time as a have a rolling damaged Zoe.
I got it from a breaker in Tipp about 2 years ago. It wasn't a usual for them though, they just happened to have it.

Would consider a swap for a leaf pack or something if you wanted?
I disassembled the pack, but all electronic parts are there. Car had ~20k km on it when it was written off.
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Re: Renault Zoe BMS

Post by paaa »

Hmm I have a few packs that might interest you , I have a fluence ze pack same a leaf , and two of the Bmw 12kwh phev packs and a selection of valence 12v modules. Where are you based? Did you dump the shell?
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Re: Renault Zoe BMS

Post by pemtek »

Did anyone ever get one of these BMS working from what I can see the BMS looks the same in the Kangoo.

I just got a few Renault Kangoo EV batteries which are 36.4 kwh and any information would be useful.
I did find this : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... =700456069

Thanks

Phil
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Re: Renault Zoe BMS

Post by joel »

Hi there,

I tried to get the minimum required can messages on the Renault Zoe Battery CAN Bus in order to get it rolling with a DIY-ed Battery and BMS. I logged traffic on the Bus using a Renault Zoe that was owned by a friend of mine and then tried to replicate them on my own Zoe, which I bought used and without a battery. There are only 6 different CAN frames on the Bus originating from the Battery, and I got quite a few of the messages figured out, such as momentarily allowed charge/discharge power, SOC, SOH, max and min cell temperatures, but also have some left to decode.

I then built a 96s1p 18650 pack (complete with contactors and pre-charge resistor) but unfortunately connecting it and replaying sensible (or common values where the meaning is unknown to me) was not enough to get my Zoe rolling. I didn't want to interfere with the Bus on my friends Zoe, which is why I only listened passively over there, and he has recently sold his Zoe, so I don't have access to it anymore.

I am not entirely sure what's the issue, but the PEB ECU throws some error codes that read "CAN Communication Error" so I might have gotten some illegal values or missed some handshaking going on. There is also some ISO-TP communication going on between the battery and the PEB containing some more info, e.g. all cell values. I didn't implement these ISO-TP Frames, since they aren't requested very often, but this could also be an issue.

I still think this is entirely doable since there are only 6 different CAN2.0A Frame-IDs containing some 40 bytes or so in total and nothing seems to be encrypted.

If anybody here is interested I could share the results I have gotten so far.

Regards,
Joel
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Re: Renault Zoe BMS

Post by paaa »

I have can logs from a working car if your interested
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Re: Renault Zoe BMS

Post by joel »

paaa wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 9:58 pm I have can logs from a working car if your interested
I guess that's an answer to pemtek, as my post was only approved this morning?

In any case I'd be interested too in order to compare them to see how the fixed bytes differ between different vehicles.

Are those recorded from the Battery CAN Bus (between PEB and LBC) or from the OBD connector? I recorded mine directly at the battery and most of the relevant messages for the BMS are not gatewayed to the OBD connector (and vice versa, there is much less traffic on the Battery CAN Bus in general).
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Re: Renault Zoe BMS

Post by paaa »

Its a good while ago now but nearly sure I did it at the battery.
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Re: Renault Zoe BMS

Post by paaa »

joel wrote: Tue Apr 12, 2022 3:37 pm Hi there,

I tried to get the minimum required can messages on the Renault Zoe Battery CAN Bus in order to get it rolling with a DIY-ed Battery and BMS. I logged traffic on the Bus using a Renault Zoe that was owned by a friend of mine and then tried to replicate them on my own Zoe, which I bought used and without a battery. There are only 6 different CAN frames on the Bus originating from the Battery, and I got quite a few of the messages figured out, such as momentarily allowed charge/discharge power, SOC, SOH, max and min cell temperatures, but also have some left to decode.

I then built a 96s1p 18650 pack (complete with contactors and pre-charge resistor) but unfortunately connecting it and replaying sensible (or common values where the meaning is unknown to me) was not enough to get my Zoe rolling. I didn't want to interfere with the Bus on my friends Zoe, which is why I only listened passively over there, and he has recently sold his Zoe, so I don't have access to it anymore.

I am not entirely sure what's the issue, but the PEB ECU throws some error codes that read "CAN Communication Error" so I might have gotten some illegal values or missed some handshaking going on. There is also some ISO-TP communication going on between the battery and the PEB containing some more info, e.g. all cell values. I didn't implement these ISO-TP Frames, since they aren't requested very often, but this could also be an issue.

I still think this is entirely doable since there are only 6 different CAN2.0A Frame-IDs containing some 40 bytes or so in total and nothing seems to be encrypted.

If anybody here is interested I could share the results I have gotten so far.

Regards,
Joel
Peb messages have the vin included from what i heard (might not be the whole vin but its a message associated with the immobiliser, hence the reason why people write off cars when they go wrong. Think its just a matter of swapping control board so they just expect the same vin on the can.
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Re: Renault Zoe BMS

Post by paaa »

File names give brief description of what was happening with the log. Ill find vin for car and we can see what common between vins and then compare as that probably easiest way once we know both vins.
Attachments
zoe running then off and wit till can ends 26km on battery.csv
(8.64 MiB) Downloaded 263 times
Zoe key in , then start..csv
(1.47 MiB) Downloaded 175 times
Running then up to 10kph on lift traction enagaged , then stop turn off in D.csv
(7.74 MiB) Downloaded 203 times
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Re: Renault Zoe BMS

Post by joel »

Thank you very much! I got quite some time on the weekend/next week and will upload my dumps, I've got quite a few.

Here is the document I've begun filling out with the meaning of the CAN frames:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... u441zBzlpM

There is definitely some handshaking going on between the BMS and the Charging Block, and also some status bits for balancing/interrupting power and so on. So in order to use a Zoe BMS with a different charger or a DIY BMS with the Zoe charger, this handshaking has to be understood and implemented.
Peb messages have the vin included from what i heard (might not be the whole vin but its a message associated with the immobiliser, hence the reason why people write off cars when they go wrong.
But does the Battery Messages have the VIN included too? I was under the impression that the 400V battery can be swapped without any reprogramming. I did not change anything with the rest of the vehicle, all components there are like they got assembled in the factory.
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Re: Renault Zoe BMS

Post by paaa »

Battery can be swapped, that is confirmed as I have swapped a 22 between different car and a 40 into a 22.
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Re: Renault Zoe BMS

Post by pemtek »

OK so I have the battery connected to a power supply, it pulls almost 300mA for a few seconds and then drops to 35uA. No data is transmitted on the canbus. Now I am hoping it wakes when it is sent some can data.

Phil
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Re: Renault Zoe BMS

Post by pemtek »

OK so solved that somewhat. Thanks to paaa I used one of the can logs and found that it wakes up and starts sending data when I send 0x423 and then stops again after the log is turned off. Now to work out what everything means..

Phil
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Re: Renault Zoe BMS

Post by Heikki J. »

Great work already! I've got a 40kWh pack also lying around and it would be great if someone can crack the controls.

I'm also interested if anyone has used Zoe modules with some other BMS.
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Re: Renault Zoe BMS

Post by paaa »

apparently from what I read the cells used in the Zoe 40kwh are the same as used in the Hyundai Kona but in different configuration
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Re: Renault Zoe BMS

Post by joel »

joel wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 10:11 pm Thank you very much! I got quite some time on the weekend/next week and will upload my dumps, I've got quite a few.
Of course that was too hopeful on my side, but it's the hope that counts.

I have uploaded my can dumps, they can be found here:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/19PINL3 ... 7qYPVdZgds

Some explanations:
Zoe_No_1 folder is the working Zoe that I don't have access to anymore.
Zoe_No_2 folder is the other Zoe without a battery, where I tried to emulate a battery with 96s1p 18650 cells attached. You can see me pressing the "Start" button one or two times in the sequences, but the Zoe shuts off after trying for 2-3 seconds. At least something happened with the relays though, and the display showed a range and 100% SOC.

I also added my oscilloscope measurements of the 3 relay lines going into the battery, (can be seen in the attachment). This is the typical start and shutdown sequence. Signals: Yellow is 2AD, Blue is 2AC and Red is 3FB1, referring to the designators in the Renault schematics.
verlauf.png
Concerning the handshaking: There is definitely some handshaking going on. I've also attached the wakeup/handshake protocol of the Renault Twizy (!). The general structure of the car, both hardware- and can communication protocol-wise, is at least somewhat similar to the one of Zoe Ph 1. This has been reverse-engineered by dexterbg from https://github.com/dexterbg/Twizy-Virtual-BMS.
twizy_charging_protocol.png
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Re: Renault Zoe BMS

Post by wizo »

Hello, does anyone have the pin assignment of CAN BMS to match the ZOE (PH1 / 2013 - 2018)?
I would like to listen to the CAN bus from my ZOE battery (22 kWh). I'm looking for a way to operate the battery on a HV inverter without getting error messages about incorrect CAN BUS communication. I would be happy about a hint. Thx!
Renault ZOE Battery 22kWh
Renault ZOE Battery 22kWh
Renault ZOE Battery 22kWh, left side = CAN BUS, right side = battery poles
Renault ZOE Battery 22kWh, left side = CAN BUS, right side = battery poles
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