openinverter forum

Today, Dodge finally released pricing and options for the first Charger Daytona EV, and in the publicly available press kit, I found an exceptionally detailed specification document with lots of interesting information (attached).

Some background for those that have not been following this as closely:
Stellantis, the conglomerate of FCA and PSA has announced an onslaught of EVs based on four platforms (plus some others that were already in development). The four platforms are STLA Small, STLA Medium, STLA Large, and STLA Frame. They claim that these are "BEV first" platforms that are also "multienergy capable" Meaning they've been revised to have both EV and ICE versions. They also claim the platforms can be 400V or 800V. Eventually we'll need a Stellantis part of the forum, but Johannes, I presume that should wait until there are actual parts/cars to hack.

The next generation Dodge Charger is the first on the STLA Large platform, along with the Jeep Wagoneer S. The Charger Daytona is the EV, and the Charger Six Pack is the ICE, with the turbocharged Hurricane inline 6. The Daytona will eventually have 4 trim levels, base (presumably called SXT), R/T, Scat Pack, and Banshee. It is launching with just the R/T and Scat Pack, which are AWD dual motor. The Base will be RWD, and the Banshee will be an AWD 800V tri-motor. There will be 2 door and 4 door versions of both ICE and EV, but only the 2 door EV is available at launch.

I plan to order one as soon as I can, but I'm not sure if I'm ordering an R/T or a Scat Pack. Cost and the items discussed below will impact that. I have been waiting so long for an EV muscle car to replace my Challenger.

Now to the interesting things in the document:
First, there is WAY more information than I expected them to give. The first thing that jumped out was actually providing spring and damping rates, which will make it much easier to lower mine once I get it (they sit way too tall based on photos so far).

What I found much more interesting is on the last page. This calls out different power levels for the two trims, but then further down it shows that they have the same battery configuration, and appear to have the exact same drive units, with each having a "Maximum Hardware Capability" of 250kW per axle.

Now, the range difference I think comes down to tires, the R/T will have 245s vs the Scat Pack's 305. And obviously the Scat Pack has better suspension and brakes. But if the batteries are the same, and the drive units are the same, then the power difference must be entirely software.

What Can We Do With This Information
I was already planning to data log the living daylights out of it once I own one. Now, I'm wondering if "upgrading" to a Scat Pack will be as simple as swapping out one or more computers?

They have also announced they will offer "Stage" kits from dealers that will upgrade power levels without hardware changes (this is largely to keep dealers on board with EVs and losing service revenue) which implies there will be a way to unlock power through either over the air updates or new computers.

So, many new EV hacking adventures await! If only they would hurry up and start building them! (they're supposed to start basically any day now.)

I think the 2-door Charger looks great, but the 5,838 curb weight is shocking. This thing is going to eat tires unless driven very conservatively.

I really like the looks of the Challenger, but I never bought one as the lightest V6 version was 500 lbs heavier than the 1994 Corvette I owned. I may have to drive an electric Charger to satisfy my curiosity. In the mean time my 3000 lbs porky little Fiat 500e is my only EV until the Dakota conversion is complete.

P.S.Mangelsdorf wrote: ↑Thu Aug 08, 2024 12:44 amupgrade power levels without hardware changes [/size][/i]

Ah I don't like that. Paywalling your performance. Unless the upgrade software has had significant engineering effort expended to get more out of the hardware, but I'd bet it's more like a single line of code to increase the current limit. Only other reason I could see to neuter the power in the first place would be for warranty reasons, where paying extra for more performance just covers their expected increase in warranty claims. If that's the case, I can at least understand, even if I still don't like it...

Zieg wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 8:13 pm Ah I don't like that. Paywalling your performance. Unless the upgrade software has had significant engineering effort expended to get more out of the hardware, but I'd bet it's more like a single line of code to increase the current limit. Only other reason I could see to neuter the power in the first place would be for warranty reasons, where paying extra for more performance just covers their expected increase in warranty claims. If that's the case, I can at least understand, even if I still don't like it...

Ah I don't know about that. I am vehemently agains cars having a subscription service but power levels have been different between trim levels for a long time, even when they have exactly the same hardware the tune has been lower for lower spec cars. I don't find it egregious and it at least allows for the next generation of tuning.

Joshie225 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 5:19 pm I think the 2-door Charger looks great, but the 5,838 curb weight is shocking. This thing is going to eat tires unless driven very conservatively.

Agreed on both points

Joshie225 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 5:19 pm I really like the looks of the Challenger, but I never bought one as the lightest V6 version was 500 lbs heavier than the 1994 Corvette I owned.

My daily is actually a V6 2017 Challenger. It drives well. It loves to cruise at high speeds, feels very stable and doesn't get terrible milage. It can be fun on a twisty road; the chassis of the 2006-2023 Charger and Challenger is actually based on a '90s Mercedes they got ahold of during the Daimler-Chrysler years. I wish I didn't need to trade it in to afford the new Charger, but I've been waiting for a cool EV muscle car for so long.

Joshie225 wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 5:19 pm I may have to drive an electric Charger to satisfy my curiosity.

I've already told my local dealer I want one when the order books open. Still no word when that will be.

Zieg wrote: ↑Mon Sep 02, 2024 8:13 pm Unless the upgrade software has had significant engineering effort expended to get more out of the hardware, but I'd bet it's more like a single line of code to increase the current limit.

It does appear that the Scat Pack will have additional drive modes, like Drag, Burnout, and Drift, so there is definitely more engineering work.

I've been following the Charger Daytona news very closely, and based on what I've seen over the years, I think the original plan was for there to be a battery difference between the models, and then someone realized that would end up being more effort than it was worth, and they went this direction.

I don't love it from a consumer perspective, but as someone that is itching to hot rod them, knowing there is room to do that on the R/Ts is exciting.

barracuda816 wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2024 7:53 am I don't find it egregious and it at least allows for the next generation of tuning.

Exactly.

Okay, things like additional drive modes that requires additional effort makes me feel better about it. And I do think some of that cost will be used to cover any increase in warranty claims resulting from the increased stress on the hardware.

Zieg wrote: ↑Tue Sep 03, 2024 3:47 pm Okay, things like additional drive modes that requires additional effort makes me feel better about it. And I do think some of that cost will be used to cover any increase in warranty claims resulting from the increased stress on the hardware.

The Scat Pack also gets better brakes and different suspension components so it's not JUST software, but from a power perspective, it might be just software.

P.S.Mangelsdorf wrote: ↑Wed Sep 04, 2024 6:52 pm The Scat Pack also gets better brakes and different suspension components so it's not JUST software, but from a power perspective, it might be just software.

My daily is actually a V6 2017 Challenger. It drives well. It loves to cruise at high speeds, feels very stable and doesn't get terrible milage. It can be fun on a twisty road; the chassis of the 2006-2023 Charger and Challenger is actually based on a '90s Mercedes they got ahold of during the Daimler-Chrysler years. I wish I didn't need to trade it in to afford the new Charger, but I've been waiting for a cool EV muscle car for so long.

I understand having one hardware build for the motors/inverters and reigning in the power on the software side to match the chassis spec. The spec sheet shows all models/trims getting the big brake option for 2024.

My daily is a 2015 Fiat 500e or a 1995 Toyota Land Cruiser Prado. My highway car is a 1996 MB C280.