Tesla Battery Day - New 4680 Cell

[AlexD]

Anyone else watch the conference? New battery tech looks really cool, tabless cell, wonder when these will filter down to DIY'ers

They also noted the newer battery packs will be bonded together and part of the chassis....

[P.S.Mangelsdorf]

wonder when these will filter down to DIY'ers

Give it about 2 months from when the first car with them hits the streets. Long enough for one to get in a minor fender bender, get totaled because there is no parts availability, go through the salvage title process, and be auctioned.

[P.S.Mangelsdorf]

And of course, when they hit the streets is a big question. At this point I take whatever Musk says and add somewhere between 6 months and 2 years.

[Roadstercycle]

The issue is going to be getting them out of there bonding. He said they where going to be part of the bonded structure. Does that mean that you'll destroy them taking them out of the wrecked car? Only time will tell if they can be repurposed for the DIY community without mounting the whole pack.

[Isaac96]

It may be the same bonding process as the current cells - but the current cells only have a single small wire (the microfuse) where the big cells will likely have a much larger wire. IIRC they use ultrasonic welding to attach the cells together, not sure how hard that is to reverse.

[vwbrady]

With this new pack construction you're not salvaging these cells without a LOT of work. The multiple modules making up a current tesla pack will be an obsolete design when these 4680 cells make it into cars. This new packs will basically be one big solid module with huge casting attaching to it. To utilize it in something else, you'd probably have to put it on a roof rack.

If you're familiar with composite "sandwich panels" at all, we're talking about the cells being the actual honeycomb. The resulting panel then becomes a structural member of the vehicle, which is what Elon said. This means you aren't disassembling this pack. Like at all.

your best best at utilizing these cells will be by harvesting them from a future powerwall.

[P.S.Mangelsdorf]

With this new pack construction you're not salvaging these cells without a LOT of work. The multiple modules making up a current tesla pack will be an obsolete design when these 4680 cells make it into cars. This new packs will basically be one big solid module with huge casting attaching to it. To utilize it in something else, you'd probably have to put it on a roof rack.

If you're familiar with composite "sandwich panels" at all, we're talking about the cells being the actual honeycomb. The resulting panel then becomes a structural member of the vehicle, which is what Elon said. This means you aren't disassembling this pack. Like at all.

your best best at utilizing these cells will be by harvesting them from a future powerwall.

But you likely will be able to slide the whole pack and/or chassis under another car, similar to how (seemingly) a crap load of people are merging 1st gen Mustangs and 2015+ Mustangs chassis/unibody.

[Roadstercycle]

With this new pack construction you're not salvaging these cells without a LOT of work. The multiple modules making up a current tesla pack will be an obsolete design when these 4680 cells make it into cars. This new packs will basically be one big solid module with huge casting attaching to it. To utilize it in something else, you'd probably have to put it on a roof rack.

If you're familiar with composite "sandwich panels" at all, we're talking about the cells being the actual honeycomb. The resulting panel then becomes a structural member of the vehicle, which is what Elon said. This means you aren't disassembling this pack. Like at all.

your best best at utilizing these cells will be by harvesting them from a future powerwall.

That may be the way to do it. Group buy on the new 4680 power walls. We Wish!

[AlexD]

Yeah thats how i understood it, was that it was bonded together, on top of this it seems like they will be gold dust to even Tesla themselves until about 2030, so buying them directly does not seem plausible either

[4markowen]

If you think about it, it's the same route smart phones took in having to maximise the available space for batteries and making them harder or impossible to swap out (looking at Apple, but all of them really except say Fairphone (take a look)).

Integral batteries as structural elements have been talked about for a while, especially solid state batteries when (if) they land, so perhaps legislation that goes beyond the usual recycling and brings in reduce and reuse as well?

[vwbrady]

But you likely will be able to slide the whole pack and/or chassis under another car, similar to how (seemingly) a crap load of people are merging 1st gen Mustangs and 2015+ Mustangs chassis/unibody.

That's a good point. if you're swapping a ladder frame vehicle you may be able to just plop the body right on top of the Tesla skateboard.

[Isaac96]

Tesla isn't quite a skateboard yet -- the suspension components, for one, attach to the body. So a custom frame is still needed.

[AlexD]

I also follow the Space X Starship progress on youtube, their latest revision (SN8) features a Tesla battery pack! You can see it here at the top of the bulkhead:

[MitchJi]

With this new pack construction you're not salvaging these cells without a LOT of work. The multiple modules making up a current tesla pack will be an obsolete design when these 4680 cells make it into cars. This new packs will basically be one big solid module with huge casting attaching to it. To utilize it in something else, you'd probably have to put it on a roof rack.

I've been trying to figure out how to use one of these packs in a first gen Roadster. Not sure if this is an insane idea but I've started to wonder if it's a good idea to mount the pack under the car like a skatęboard. First remove the "Aero plate" under the car. Then look for any high spots that can be removed gaining 0mm to ~26mm. Replace the wheels (16 ' and 17" with 18" and 19") and fatter tires gaining ~50mm. Then use taller springs/air components to make up whatever you still need. Run bolts through a titanium plate from a MS and through the pack squeezing the pack to the car. I think the pack is about 90mm thick and the MS plate is about the same thickness as the "Aero plate". Raising the suspension can probably allow the bigger tires and wheels to fit under the fenders. For handling the car would be higher, but stronger, have a much lower center of gravity and much better front-rear weight distribution (1k lb rear pack removed).

Eventually we will have a list of cars that have had this done with the results.

If you're familiar with composite "sandwich panels" at all, we're talking about the cells being the actual honeycomb. The resulting panel then becomes a structural member of the vehicle, which is what Elon said. This means you aren't disassembling this pack. Like at all.

Bandsaw might do it.

your best best at utilizing these cells will be by harvesting them from a future powerwall.

Elon said on the 26th near the end of the ER Q&A that they will probably use a different form factor for iron based cells and that it makes sense to use those in storage. Might be some conveniently sized modules on the semi.