AEM Tesla Control

[P.S.Mangelsdorf]

So AEM has announced their Tesla control board. Anyone have insights/bets on how much is based on/ripping off Damien's work?

https://www.aemev.com/products/ev-vehic ... onversions

[Isaac96]

They've got a TMS320 on there -- bringing out the big guns. Probably running FOC because they have the time and the money for the best tuning.
I'd bet they borrowed some pinout information but that's probably it -- that does look like an 'automotive-class' design, full isolation of everything, etc. etc. Co-developed with Cascadia, nice.

[P.S.Mangelsdorf]

They've got a TMS320 on there -- bringing out the big guns. Probably running FOC because they have the time and the money for the best tuning.
I'd bet they borrowed some pinout information but that's probably it -- that does look like an 'automotive-class' design, full isolation of everything, etc. etc. Co-developed with Cascadia, nice.

Appreciate the insight. Now I don't need to get as irritated at it. Their stuff is still way too expensive for me, and I should have my Damien controlled LDU up and running before theirs is even available anyways.

[Mojave]

I'm not here in any official manner but I work at AEM so if anyone has any questions I might be able to answer them or find someone who could.

[johu]

AEM EV’s VCU200 and Inverter Control Board combo eliminates the uncertainty and limitations of CAN-Spoofing control, and hobby-level capabilities of Open-Source alternatives

Much appreciated

UPDATE April: I have locked this thread as I don't want to advertise a company that discredits open source solutions as "hobby level"

[Mojave]

AEM EV’s VCU200 and Inverter Control Board combo eliminates the uncertainty and limitations of CAN-Spoofing control, and hobby-level capabilities of Open-Source alternatives

Much appreciated

Ha!
That is mainly regarding the design and warranty aspects of the board. Mainly the support a shop needs to cover their asses if something goes sideways.

[Jack Bauer]

AEM EV’s VCU200 and Inverter Control Board combo eliminates the uncertainty and limitations of CAN-Spoofing control, and hobby-level capabilities of Open-Source alternatives

Much appreciated

Yeah. Why not simply promote your product on its merits? Anyway, back to playing with some hobby level open source alternatives.....

[Mojave]

I think that the ability to buy a fully premade board that comes with full free engineering support, requires no special inverter knowledge and is covered by a warranty is definitely a feature to certain segments.

It's really not aimed at the same market the open source boards are. Here, people want to work on their boards, they want to dive in and play with settings. The AEM board is for shops that want to use Tesla Motors in vehicle builds and don't want to get down into the weeds of motor control themselves.

[P.S.Mangelsdorf]

I think that the ability to buy a fully premade board that comes with full free engineering support, requires no special inverter knowledge and is covered by a warranty is definitely a feature to certain segments.

It's really not aimed at the same market the open source boards are. Here, people want to work on their boards, they want to dive in and play with settings. The AEM board is for shops that want to use Tesla Motors in vehicle builds and don't want to get down into the weeds of motor control themselves.

I think that Damien and Johannes' point was that your first paragraph is a great way to sell it; there's no need to openly throw a kick at open source options.

[tom91]

I think that the ability to buy a fully premade board that comes with full free engineering support, requires no special inverter knowledge and is covered by a warranty is definitely a feature to certain segments.

It's really not aimed at the same market the open source boards are. Here, people want to work on their boards, they want to dive in and play with settings. The AEM board is for shops that want to use Tesla Motors in vehicle builds and don't want to get down into the weeds of motor control themselves.

The question I would raise, having had a huge multitude of Tesla Drive units apart, how will AEM be dealing with the DOA Tesla drive units (these are salvaged units after all) that the boards get fit to by unwitting customers? As shifting the blame onto the replacement board would be quite an easy step.

[Mojave]

Sorry, I don't see that as a kick at open source.

The open source boards require the user to have specific technical skills to get their project up and running. That's totally fine for someone who is interested in acquiring those skills for their project. I would call that their hobby and I believe it encompasses most of the people on this site (including me). But there is a big chunk of people who don't want to learn how an inverter works. They just want to swap a Tesla into a vehicle and have it work. They are not Inverter hobbyists, they just own a shop and need to get the next project done on time and on budget. They don't have an inverter guru on staff and don't want to hire one. They have to give their customer a warranty on their work and they expect their suppliers to warranty their components as well. The AEM board is targeting a commercial environment where the customer will have certain expectations than must be met. They are just different worlds. Neither is better than the other.

[P.S.Mangelsdorf]

Sorry, I don't see that as a kick at open source.

The open source boards require the user to have specific technical skills to get their project up and running. That's totally fine for someone who is interested in acquiring those skills for their project. I would call that their hobby and I believe it encompasses most of the people on this site (including me). But there is a big chunk of people who don't want to learn how an inverter works. They just want to swap a Tesla into a vehicle and have it work. They are not Inverter hobbyists, they just own a shop and need to get the next project done on time and on budget. They don't have an inverter guru on staff and don't want to hire one. They have to give their customer a warranty on their work and they expect their suppliers to warranty their components as well. The AEM board is targeting a commercial environment where the customer will have certain expectations than must be met. They are just different worlds. Neither is better than the other.

Look, I get the point of marketing is making the case for your product, and I fully understand the benefits of the AEM option. I just don't think there was any need to mention open source options, and certainly no need to refer to them as "uncertain" or "limited" or (by implication) "uncapable".

If you're going to be here and engage with the "hobby" side of the EV community (which I appreciate you doing!), you have to understand that throwing specific digs into the marketing copy isn't going to be appreciated.

[Mojave]

The question I would raise, having had a huge multitude of Tesla Drive units apart, how will AEM be dealing with the DOA Tesla drive units (these are salvaged units after all) that the boards get fit to by unwitting customers? As shifting the blame onto the replacement board would be quite an easy step.

I believe (I dont know this for sure as it's not my area) these will only be available through trained dealers so the motor will run before the end user ever sees it. Also, 100% of the boards will be dyno run on a real LDU and at full voltage and current before delivery so DOA controller units from AEM will be very unlikely.

[tom91]

I believe (I dont know this for sure as it's not my area) these will only be available through trained dealers so the motor will run before the end user ever sees it. Also, 100% of the boards will be dyno run on a real LDU and at full voltage and current before delivery so DOA controller units from AEM will be very unlikely.

Thats the route we have had to take with our solutions, as leaving the end customers, who you rightfully say might not be knowledgeable enough, required to pre inspect anything will only cause issues. Plus having spun up a motor makes sure there are no mechanical issues, as there unfortunately is still plenty that can fail.

[P.S.Mangelsdorf]

The question I would raise, having had a huge multitude of Tesla Drive units apart, how will AEM be dealing with the DOA Tesla drive units (these are salvaged units after all) that the boards get fit to by unwitting customers? As shifting the blame onto the replacement board would be quite an easy step.

I believe (I dont know this for sure as it's not my area) these will only be available through trained dealers so the motor will run before the end user ever sees it. Also, 100% of the boards will be dyno run on a real LDU and at full voltage and current before delivery so DOA controller units from AEM will be very unlikely.

I think he's referring to DOA drive units, not DOA products. The only source for Tesla units is salvage, and plenty got damaged when the car was wrecked.

[johu]

I have a marketing idea:
The openinverter drop in board eliminates both the uncertainty and limitations of closed source products, and pro-level pricing of commercial alternatives.

Maybe lets all appreciate each others work

Your other points are totally valid.

[Mojave]

I just don't think there was any ...snip... need to refer to them as "uncertain" or "limited" or (by implication) "uncapable".

You misread the text. The Uncertain and Limited was referring to the CAN Spoofing methodology used by some solutions not the Open Source version.

I just don't think there was any need to mention open source options

I think you are not giving the Open Source board enough credit as it is a legitimate option in some cases. Up till now there are 2 basic solutions to the Tesla "problem". First you can try to Spoof the CAN signals or you can do the Open Source board. We are offering a new third way that is targeted specifically at commercial usage.

[Mojave]

I have a marketing idea: .....

But does the Open Source board really need marketing? It's not like this project is a designed to be a commercial endeavor

[P.S.Mangelsdorf]

I think you are not giving the Open Source board enough credit as it is a legitimate option in some cases.

I mean there's literally one in my car right now. I think I give it plenty of credit.

We are offering a new third way that is targeted specifically at commercial usage.

I fully understand this, you've mentioned it multiple times.

The point is, you are not REQUIRED to use negative marketing. I can write copy that says the exact same thing without directly calling out competitors.

"AEM's new Tesla control board is a great, simile reliable option. It doesn't require previous experience with inverter tuning or even any experience with EVs at all! Our option comes complete with factory support and a warranty. It just works, right out of the box. With AEM's new control board, a Tesla swap simpler becomes simpler than an LS swap."

[Mojave]

"AEM's new Tesla control board is a great, simile reliable option. It doesn't require previous experience with inverter tuning or even any experience with EVs at all! Our option comes complete with factory support and a warranty. It just works, right out of the box. With AEM's new control board, a Tesla swap simpler becomes simpler than an LS swap."

I wish you there when this was being written!

[johu]

Well it's a website, not a printed catalog. I'm sure your marketing will like Mangelsdorfs text

[Mojave]

Well it's a website, not a printed catalog. I'm sure your marketing will like Mangelsdorfs text

Well, the fact that the first I heard this announcement was made was by reading it on this forum should tell you a lot about my sway in the marketing group.

[johu]

Fair enough, I hardly browsed the website of the company that I used to work for nor did I know anyone from marketing. That said, they had 5000 employees back then.

[bobwind]

The question is when is the SDU board coming out, and will we be able to use a combo of the LDU and SDU with the VCU300. For me, I like all the added functionality the VCU brings, simple things like off the shelf Vehicle Dynamics Module is really helpful. I'm doing a multimotor build, and for me it is what will get me to the end point most simply. CAN message spoofing was never the answer. I don't really care if its an open source or commercial board, its which one is going to work best for my application. I like having many choices, wish there was more of them.

Bob

[KimchiKimKim]

They designed it with Cascadia motion (the people behind the Rinehart inverters) so I think its a pretty sick little board!