[WIP] L322 RR Vogue - The beached whale

[nkiernan]

Yes I know... too big, too heavy, silly choice Thankfully watching Damien's latest questions and answers video talking about which cars to convert put me back at east (a little )!

Back in 2020 I stumbled across a fiat 500 ev conversion which used a bolt in kit and that sparked an idea for a new project. Being a long time fan of the E39 BMW's I thought that could be a cool project and I knew of one lying up. After some online research though, I found Damien's Panzer project, and 113 videos later I was completely hooked and itching to try a project of my own.

I was lucky enough to get on one of the New Electric conversion courses with Damien and Kevin in Aug 2020, and came away with a huge amount of invaluable info to get me started. Before the end of the course I had started snapping up items online as the project formed in my head. Damien had just put out some videos on the P38 Range Rover and talked about the choices for donor vehicles to take the focus off the small/light/aerodynamic restrictions.

For me, I didn't want a restoration project, I wanted to focus on the conversion and something a little different. I was on the look out for a 4x4 for some trailer and off road work at the time, and after the course, I wanted the challenge to help me learn more about integrated auto systems and the CAN bus systems...this will come back to haunt me I'm sure!

In February 2021 I found a 2008 Range Rover Vogue 3.6 TdV8 with some serious engine issues and due to the cost of repairs, it was destined for the breakers. This could be perfect, mechanically in great condition (once you didn't try start it ), ridiculous options and comfort...has more TV's and computers than my house! Price was already low, but after selling off some of the components removed, this part of the project will almost become cost neutral! Originally I was looking at Defenders, but these are already popular for conversions and prices are ridiculous for what you get compared to the RRV.

I've been slowly working through the project in my spare time and hope to share a number of updates over the next few weeks as this forum has been an invaluable resource for all my questions, so maybe some of the info I share can help others.

[hugow93]

Class Neil! I'll follow this one with interest. Bigger the better. I've a Hilux Surf I'd consider doing when I eventually make it through my current project, so looking forward to seeing what you decide on. Are you still planning to use the 2x GS450h gearboxes?

[nkiernan]

Driveline:

Following the New Electric course, I had settled on the GS450H driveline setup for my future project, whatever that may be...without thinking it all through fully (found and bought two GS450H gearboxes before I had settled on the RRV)! The first GS450H gearbox came without the oil pump as is typical but the second one showed up including the oil pump and controller and flex plate etc cheap as I was searching for the first oil pump so couldn't resist.

I ordered up two GS450H VCU's from EVBMW and I found a GS450H inverter in the UK and then a Camry inverter in the US. Gathered up some loom sections, connectors, pedals, etc and worked on getting the two drivelines running on the bench...

Next I replaced the oil pump bearings and fabricated a locking plate for the face of the GS450H gearbox.

On the course, during one of the breaks there was a random chat about two GS450H units back to back for a four wheel drive setup, one to each axle diff! In a moment of madness I considered this...and the face plate was designed to have a number of symetric holes to align two gearboxes!

Physically these take up a lot of space, even though there is decent space under the RRV. So the plan was brought back in line and the intention is to run a single GS450H gearbox to the original RRV transfer box. This has its own controller, is 1:1 straight through with a low range and variable clutch set up for off road use. This is going to be a phase 1 solution as I'm not 100% happy with this route yet. Max gearbox rpm, transfer case loses, axle diff ratios, etc will mean limits on top speed but for now I'll work with what I have and have been looking at possible phase 2 and phase 3 solutions!!!

Since starting the project, I was watching the Zombieverter project with interest so have now bought one from EVBMW to use instead.

[nkiernan]

Driveline:

As mentioned previously, not being 100% happy with the GS450H driveline option for this project, I've been running some options round in the back of my head.

I'm really interested in the Tesla Model 3 drives work being done on the forum and by Damien. I mocked up a rear TM3 drive to see how this might fit per axle. The front TM3 drive is slightly smaller so will fit in the front sub-frame with little issue, but the rear drive could be a little trickier to fit..not unmanageable though.

My preference was for separate drives to allow front/rear/4x4 options. I know some are looking at using the TM3 rear drive in the center to drive props to the front and rear axle diffs and this could be an option, but if I could get drive motors in the axle line, this leaves huge space underneath to take batteries.

I was also watching Damien's progress on the Big Cat project, the IPace motors. These are a smaller form factor again, and would look to potentially work really well mounted into the front and rear RRV sub-frames. However, I have some more thinking to do around diff's and LSD's, gear ratio's, etc...but keeping options open.

[nkiernan]

Batteries:

With the size and clearance underneath the RRV, this gives more options than many others may have for batteries. With help from Calvin at EVBreakers, I have a 55kWh SR Tesla Model 3 battery pack to use.

To maximise range, I'd like to use a larger battery pack, but this may be a phase 2 project! The SR battery modules are shorter than the 75kWh modules and fit underneath the RRV without issues. The longer modules would not fit. Also, as the TM3 modules are unmanageable for many car conversions, they are in less demand so come at much better prices.

I will use fast/CCS charging (TM3 PCS and BMW i3 LIM) which will aid any longer trips rather than carrying round the larger battery weight but depending on how my driveline choice may change in the future, I have considered using an IPace 90kWh battery pack.

Made a weigh scales to keep track of all component weights and each of the modules come in approx. 59Kg, so 236Kg for the four modules shown below.

With a lot of great help and support from members on this forum, I got connected up to the battery CAN buses and can read all 96 cell voltages and other key info. I've not settled on a BMS option yet, the TM3 BMS isn't just available for use in conversions yet unfortunately but Orion 2 is a possible option. The preference is to use the TM3 option but I don't need to finalise this for now.

[nkiernan]

Battery Boxes:

So the head scratching began, out with the cardboard mockups, and on to Solidworks...time to figure out the battery boxes. Reusing the main components from the TM3 battery pack, the breathers, coolant inlets and outlets, etc.

I needed to split the battery boxes either side of the rear prop shaft. In future this may be revised if I change the drive setup. Plan is to stack two modules on top of each other in each battery box.

Some rough work in SW to figure out clearances and coolant inlets and outlets

Measuring up the ports and components from the TM3 pack

Parts drawn up and ordered from laser suppliers for fabrication

[nkiernan]

Battery Boxes:

Tacked up the battery boxes to let me check layout and mounting details.

Tried to keep the battery boxes as shallow as possible. They sit below the chassis rails but are not the lowest ground clearance section. The front sub-frame and rear a-arms sit lower, so happy with ground clearance especially with the air suspension. I will look at a protective frame across the front though

Plan is to mount the battery modules in a profiled plastic support frame that fits together using slot and tab to add rigidity

[nkiernan]

Battery Boxes:

Test fitting the skeleton plastic frame on the battery modules and in the battery boxes. Tight fit all round and the plastic supports line up with the battery box mounting straps intended to hold everything as solid as possible.

A layer of plastics will sit on the base of the battery box to protect the underside of the battery modules. The modules have a structural casing around the outside so this is where the plastic support frame sits stacking the strongest areas and providing clearance across the center

More plastic supports will sit down on top of the top battery module so when the battery box lid sits on top, the battery modules are sandwiched in plasce

Battery connectors will be trimmed back inside the plastic support and then connected to link the modules

[raine]

Nice project. Good work. How are your plans regarding battery thermal management? I am scratching my hair off when considering options regarding isolation, heating and cooling. Obviously, local conditions are different here in Finland where good isolation and heating are on top of my mind. Not sure about cooling. Pls share your thinking with this topic.
Thanks!

[nkiernan]

Class Neil! I'll follow this one with interest. Bigger the better. I've a Hilux Surf I'd consider doing when I eventually make it through my current project, so looking forward to seeing what you decide on. Are you still planning to use the 2x GS450h gearboxes?

Well Hugh. The dual GS450H would be tricky to fit and pretty unnecessary for this build I figured, so maybe save that for another project

[nkiernan]

Nice project. Good work. How are your plans regarding battery thermal management? I am scratching my hair off when considering options regarding isolation, heating and cooling. Obviously, local conditions are different here in Finland where good isolation and heating are on top of my mind. Not sure about cooling. Pls share your thinking with this topic.
Thanks!

I haven't fully settled on plans for this yet. I have a BMW coolant pump and 6-way manifold with some solenoid valves that could work to turn on/off different heating/cooling loops which was one plan. Have more research to do around heating options.

I didn't realise it was there when I bought the car, but when I started disassembling it, I found an auxiliary webasto fuel fired heater system which is an option on these. This can be set on timers from the car or by remote control to use diesel from the fuel tank to heat coolant. Solenoid valves are used to route around the engine or into the cabin to pre-heat. This is looking like a nice option to test out, fit a small fuel tank and change the control to use temp sensor output to bring on heating if needed.

[hugow93]

Class Neil! I'll follow this one with interest. Bigger the better. I've a Hilux Surf I'd consider doing when I eventually make it through my current project, so looking forward to seeing what you decide on. Are you still planning to use the 2x GS450h gearboxes?

Well Hugh. The dual GS450H would be tricky to fit and pretty unnecessary for this build I figured, so maybe save that for another project

Quality of work here is incredible (documentation included)! This is going to be high spec. Yep, enough design challenges without trying to fit those two underneath. Keep up the good work!

[Bratitude]

Excellent work.

Re tm3 du- zero ev have replacement gear sets for the m3 drive unit. Paired with the a lsd you could mount it transaxlely. the defender conversions that are done this way seem to have no issues with the lack of a secondary low range gearset.

glad to see more info on the tm3 standard range battery modules. Is the dimensions/cad files available anywhere?

[Boxster EV]

Excellent project. These Range Rovers really are great value as engine failures are commonplace, which makes for a superb conversion candidate.

[nkiernan]

Tear Down:

One thing I didn't anticipate is the amount of parts that can get stripped out and the amount of space they take up! Never removed an engine before so this was a bit of fun, and easy enough on the RRV with the whole front section removable.

The first job was to weigh the car to know where I started, so had to measure each corner once all four wheels were up on the blocks. Then I could weigh each of the main components as they were removed.

Curious to look a little closer at the V8 later on to see if the issue is fixable

Weighing the gearbox and transfer case

Good space left where the fuel tank lived for modular batteries like the IPace in future maybe!

[nkiernan]

Front Axle Mount:

The front differential and opposite side axle mount fit onto the sides of the engine sump and the axle itself actually threads through the engine sump. So with the engine out, an alternative support was needed for the front diff and axle.

First design (which later went through a few revisions with the grinder!). Picked up on some existing mounting holes and gives clearance around the steering rack. Plan was for the GS450H transmission to mount above the diff mount although alignment to the transfer box was going to be an issue. Original design also mounted direct to the front sub-frame with no anti vibration which I later decided was a requirement!

[nkiernan]

Transmission Mount:

After a little test fitting I decided the misalignment between the transmission and the transfer case could be improved so decided to modify the front diff mount to bring the transmissions as close as possible to where it should be

Adding a mount for the inverter

Final sub-frame design takes the front diff and axle, transmission and inverter to allow a simple single lift in and out

Decided to include anti-vibration mounts for the sub-frame

Looking at a frame to mount above the transmission which would later hold the charger and HVJB. This will also mount on small anti-vibration mounts

[steveknox]

Amazing work!

[nkiernan]

Re tm3 du- zero ev have replacement gear sets for the m3 drive unit. Paired with the a lsd you could mount it transaxlely. the defender conversions that are done this way seem to have no issues with the lack of a secondary low range gearset.

glad to see more info on the tm3 standard range battery modules. Is the dimensions/cad files available anywhere?

Yes, keeping an eye on ZeroEV's TM3 work and their defender conversion alright

I couldn't find models of the SR modules so took the LR module models from Grabcad and modified their length to match the modules I have. I don't know if the Grabcad LR modules were 100% accurate, but now that I've shortened them, I know the tabs and mounts along the edges are not correct. This didn't affect anything for my use but could for others. Can share step files if anyone needs them but they're not completely accurate

[Ruudi S]

You battery box is really nice. Well engineered and done. How much time did it take to do it like that?

[nkiernan]

You battery box is really nice. Well engineered and done. How much time did it take to do it like that?

Cheers I drew up all the steel and plastic parts in Solidworks and had them all profile cut and the steel folded by suppliers here to save trying to do them manually. This cost a bit more but saved a lot of time and more accurate. I'd like to have made the boxes longer to include space for contractors and to ensure the coolant lines have good clearance but was restricted by the location of the transfer box for now. Waiting on some coolant line adapters and can then see how it all fits. Have a plan to fit small junction boxes on the top rear which will sit in the fuel tank space and house the contractors and fuses. More to follow on that soon

[Bratitude]

I couldn't find models of the SR modules so took the LR module models from Grabcad and modified their length to match the modules I have. ….Can share step files if anyone needs them but they're not completely accurate

that would be great or at least how long are they?

also I’m sure you’ve looked into the LS600H gearbox ( the Awd variant of the gs450h) why not get one of those?

[tmotion]

The moment you start hooking up Orion BMS to these modules I'd be very interested to see some details and pinout. So far I was not able to find any pinouts of the m3 modules and how to exactly connect to orion

[nkiernan]

that would be great or at least how long are they?

also I’m sure you’ve looked into the LS600H gearbox ( the Awd variant of the gs450h) why not get one of those?

Yes, I had some leads on LS600H transmissions but they're rare here and expensive. I thought the rear transfer case from the LS600H bolted to the rear of the GS450H transmission when the rear case section was removed so managed to get a LS600H transfer case to try this. It didn't work out though, there is a short intermediate section needed between the 450H gearbox and the 600H transfer case, and no breakers were willing to part that out.

Comparing the Range Rover and 600H units though, the Range Rover one is a much heavier duty unit and includes variable adjustment. It also has a CAN based control module that links into mode settings in the car, so happy to retain that for this first phase. Minimise the number of CAN modules being removed for now (Engine and Transmission modules removed so far).


The file extension should be '.STEP' but wouldn't upload. You might need to edit the file names after downloading to get them open

TM3 Module 1 55Kwh Reference Only.STP

(3.25 MiB) Downloaded 565 times

TM3 Module 2 55Kwh Reference Only.STP

(3.64 MiB) Downloaded 530 times

TM3 Module 3 55Kwh Reference Only.STP

(3.57 MiB) Downloaded 564 times

TM3 Module 4 55Kwh Reference Only.STP

(3.22 MiB) Downloaded 580 times

[nkiernan]

The moment you start hooking up Orion BMS to these modules I'd be very interested to see some details and pinout. So far I was not able to find any pinouts of the m3 modules and how to exactly connect to orion

I've been looking at Johannes.l's work on his VW transporter conversion in the project section that might show some useful info, no option to go via the existing BMS boards yet