VW Mild Hybrid Starter Alternator

[JaniK]

Wonder how "someone" allways tells you and others interested in EV conversion that it cannot be done DIY style..

[Alibro]

Would something like this work with one of these motors?
https://www.evcomponents.com/keb72100x- ... oller.html
I'd love to build an electric lawn tractor and 10kw would be more than enough.

[JaniK]

Propably to some extent, just like your e-bike/leaf/rover, but since the motor allready has the ESC/inverter parts built-in, it would be best to get it spinning as-is woth CAN control.

[Alibro]

Propably to some extent, just like your e-bike/leaf/rover, but since the motor allready has the ESC/inverter parts built-in, it would be best to get it spinning as-is woth CAN control.

WOTS SO FUNNY!!
My 1hp Land Rover is great.

This is even better if it don't need more filthy lucre spent on it.

I guess I missed the important part of this thread.

[EV_Builder]

Ok, i dived into this, but can you elaborate on the sense of this? As a starter it will just be on or off. Are you sure it will be speed controlled?
I know some handy guys who make it speed controlled with our own firmware

As for the checksum stuff you could buy the CPU (and pray you get it to talk what you need) or we can try to find other canbus logs and simply replay them into the motor and see what it does or doesn't. Do you know if the motor in the VAG is connected to the gateway by canbus? Or does it has its own bus with the engine control unit?

[mjc506]

Not just a starter, it can start the ICE, but can also provide additional torque, and can take torque (regen) on braking/cruise/whatever - it should accept some form of torque/speed/current/power command over the interface.

Finding a CANbus log including start/run/stop would be great...

[collin80]

So we just told it the ignition is on and it wakes and starts sending us messages. Now problem is I'm not firing off the counter and checksum so it don't like me.
Source :
https://github.com/commaai/opendbc/blob ... b_2010.dbc

I saw where you asked if anyone could crack the CRC. I tried, it's hard. It appears that message 0x1AC probably implements the same CRC calculation so I tried to figure out what they did. Unfortunately, it's not being cooperative. I don't yet know how they calculated that CRC byte.

So, this message is pointless. The only reason I sent it was to say that I did try. These things can take quite a bit of effort to crack sometimes. It would sure help if someone had firmware for this device. Alternatively, good captures from a working car would also be handy. But, the capture you have seems to have enough data in 0x1AC to be good enough for testing and cracking. I just failed so far. It looks like it should be a CRC8 algorithm but none seem to work. Sometimes I can get some chunks to work but then other messages fail. So, I might be close. Sometimes you've go to do weird things like include the CAN ID in the CRC calc or add up the bytes then do CRC, the options are nearly endless. Only one option is likely to work so it's like standing in a swimming pool of rice and trying to find the brown one.

[Jack Bauer]

Much appreciated Colin. I'm on the lookout for a suitable car to grab some can logs. Until then this project like so many is on hold ...

[EV_Builder]

@Jack aka Damien; let me know when you need this then i dive into this CRC calculation.

I'm now doing the porsche ones...so far so good

[thetdiguy]

Hey guys Im new to the group Any updates on this unit thinking of using one on my hybrid swap porsche i found some on ebay for cheap I do have some can experience Did anyone make more headway

[EV_Builder]

Much appreciated Colin. I'm on the lookout for a suitable car to grab some can logs. Until then this project like so many is on hold ...

Did you succeed in this?

[Mitchy]

Hey Damien

Haven't tested, but looks to be XOR

XOR the First half of the CAN ID with the Last Half then continue XOR

CRC = 3 ^ C0
CRC = CRC ^ Byte 3
CRC = CRC ^ Byte 2
CRC = CRC ^ Byte 1
Byte 0 = CRC

Would be interested if it works

What appeals to me about this is the all in one aspect.

Some progress. Seems 0x3c0 byte2 bit 1 is KL15 via can :

Code: Select all

BO_ 960 Klemmen_Status_01: 4 Gateway_MQB
 SG_ Klemmen_Status_01_CRC : 0|8@1+ (1,0) [0|255] "" Airbag_MQB,BMS_MQB,Motor_Diesel_MQB,Motor_Hybrid_MQB,Motor_Otto_MQB
 SG_ Klemmen_Status_01_BZ : 8|4@1+ (1,0) [0|15] "" Airbag_MQB,BMS_MQB,Motor_Diesel_MQB,Motor_Hybrid_MQB,Motor_Otto_MQB
 SG_ ZAS_Kl_S : 16|1@1+ (1,0) [0|1] "" Vector__XXX
 SG_ ZAS_Kl_15 : 17|1@1+ (1,0) [0|1] "" Airbag_MQB,BMS_MQB,Motor_Diesel_MQB,Motor_Hybrid_MQB,Motor_Otto_MQB
 SG_ ZAS_Kl_X : 18|1@1+ (1,0) [0|1] "" Vector__XXX
 SG_ ZAS_Kl_50 : 19|1@1+ (1,0) [0|1] "" Vector__XXX

So we just told it the ignition is on and it wakes and starts sending us messages. Now problem is I'm not firing off the counter and checksum so it don't like me.
Source :
https://github.com/commaai/opendbc/blob ... b_2010.dbc

[EV_Builder]

It's not a XOR atleast I'm quite sure.
After playing and trying i come to the conclusion that a XOR would mean that if one byte changes the checksum result will also change with that amount. And that's not the case. Also a XOR can mean same CRC but different message.

I can also share that it's not a standard Polynom or that CRC needs tobe mirrored etc.

I keep searching in my spare spare spare time

[Mitchy]

Works for my dataset
ID: 3C0

Code: Select all

ID: 3C0

CC 08 07 00
CF 0B 07 00
C8 0C 07 00
CA 0E 07 00

[EV_Builder]

I was referring to 1A0 and 1AC....

[Mitchy]

A look inside!







Didn't mind hot-linking since they're on a 3rd party hosting site.
Link below is from a Russian Ukrainian forum, seems they're working on it as well.
**Apologies for the Russian/Ukrainian mixup, as pointed out by jnsaff. The Domain is indeed an Ukraine forum. I was a bit too quick to write the post. **

Source:
https://electroavtosam.com.ua/forums/vi ... 2&start=15

[EV_Builder]

Wel johu/damien thats an ST chip!

[Bratitude]

Ooh boy, very cool. line/signal tracing would be model 3 all over again. But Dayum after that, it be nice and easy for hybrid conversions

[johu]

Did they add their own encoder?
Would be fun to do a replacement board for it. Good old plain OI gate drive.

I wonder about the specs of the switches. IGBT? FET?

edited... see below

[jnsaff]

Just a sidenote .ua is Ukrainian domain, not to say the people on there could not be Russian and that they don't write Russian there but some people might find it offensive when you get lumped together with a different country that just so happens is preparing to invade yours.

[Bigpie]

Does this help with the CRC? https://github.com/commaai/opendbc/blob ... mon.cc#L95

[EV_Builder]

Does this help with the CRC? https://github.com/commaai/opendbc/blob ... mon.cc#L95

I think it isn't the one for the 1AC / 1A0 's but will check when I come around this again.

[cherridge]

Hi there,
Sorry to dig this thread back up again, but as I'm about to start down much the same road
(attempting to get an Valeo iBSG to function using it's integrated controller)

I thought I'd check a few questions;
Has anyone tried contacting Valeo, on the (unlikely) off chance they'll supply the communication protocol?

I've been looking into snippets of code on github from other projects attempting to control previous valeo alternators (not ones that can drive)
and those projects centred about the LIN bus pin. Could it be CAN is for monitoring and LIN is for control?

[EV_Builder]

Could it be CAN is for monitoring and LIN is for control?

Everything is possible there are no limits to suchs things but if you ask me it wouldn't make sense. If the control systems wants fast control over the motor/generator then CanBus is a must. LIN is cheaper tough so there you go.

[cherridge]

I got a reply from Valeo (which was a pleasant surprise) but unfortunately they couldn't give me any of the technical information we'd need.

So frustrating as getting control of these units would make them perfect, small, cheap and easy!