Outlander VCU - Rear inverter, Charger and BMS

Mitsubishi hybrid drive unit hacking
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Re: Outlander VCU - Rear inverter, Charger and BMS

Post by bigdaveakers »

After a brief break due to a spot of cancer I am back on the project!

Parts have been trial fitted to the car (Smart Roadster) and now I have the job of wiring it all up neatly before stripping it all out and cleaning it up.
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Re: Outlander VCU - Rear inverter, Charger and BMS

Post by arber333 »

aot93 wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2023 10:24 am Hi Arber,

I still have pre charge resistor and pre charge contactor - just a better quality one and more checks in the code.
Charger and heater are all connector to the inverter bus bar as OEM, so a precharge sequence is required to use either.
.....
Thank you.
My idea of DC contactor is not to control it by VCU. Sure i will use precharge relay abd resistor. But i decided to use the "start" pulse from the key lock to close a two relays in a latching configuration. This will then start DC contactor and other aux items that are critical to driving the car such as vacuum pump and hydro electric steering pump. I could then add some safety features such as "disable" relay and "interlock" relay that can disable motor and not close DC contactor at all if brake pedal is not pressed.
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Re: Outlander VCU - Rear inverter, Charger and BMS

Post by snelly »

I will be use a industrial PLC siemens Logo8 with display for my High Voltage safety control.

Paul
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Re: Outlander VCU - Rear inverter, Charger and BMS

Post by chentron »

VCU can run without dash module and BMS module , right ?
chademo is already working ?
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Re: Outlander VCU - Rear inverter, Charger and BMS

Post by aot93 »

No need for the dash module, but the BMS is required, not a massive job to strip it out if you want to run totally stand alone.
I've had chademo working but not had time to test it fully, been busy with work and other projects.
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Re: Outlander VCU - Rear inverter, Charger and BMS

Post by chentron »

Did you manage to get the Toyota pedal to work? Could you clarify what the pinout and resistances would be like?
arber333 wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 8:56 pm Would Toyota pedal not work? If I provide 5V supply, it would show 0.8V to 3.6V on one channel and 1.2 to 4.2 on another. Then i would just need to select correct channel and use than no? Or should i add a simple divider to analog line? It already has 10K to GND. If i added 2K7 inline i would get just the voltage i need.
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Re: Outlander VCU - Rear inverter, Charger and BMS

Post by chentron »

As you know teensy 3.x needed for BMS module is imposible to find, and in my case the BMS is already ready with ZEVA, so actually if anyone want to use your code (thanks for your benevolence sharing it) need to disengage from BMS code, so i will try to do my best, I already get the motor and inverter, pcb is building.
I am not programmer but i imagine will write lot of "#" anywhere i see the word BMS in main.cpp file...
Can you share notes of meaning for BMS_status values and other variables involved ?
Could you tell us one thing about chademo: an expensive Isabellenhutte shunt or others will be needed ?
aot93 wrote: Tue Nov 14, 2023 4:42 pm No need for the dash module, but the BMS is required, not a massive job to strip it out if you want to run totally stand alone.
I've had chademo working but not had time to test it fully, been busy with work and other projects.
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Re: Outlander VCU - Rear inverter, Charger and BMS

Post by arber333 »

chentron wrote: Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:08 pm Did you manage to get the Toyota pedal to work? Could you clarify what the pinout and resistances would be like?
No resistance in toyota pedals. All are hall sensor opamp style signal. Pedal position varies signal voltage. I am using those particular pedals in all my OI and Lebowski drives. Pinout i posted in hardware section and in my blog link.

For outlander motor i made a recording of motor running with oem inverter and aot vcu.
Now i am working on my VCU based on esp32 chip. With this problem are analog channels sensing which are attrocious. I am using I2C ad chip now...
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Re: Outlander VCU - Rear inverter, Charger and BMS

Post by chentron »

yes I have the pinouts of toyota pedal. Sorry, with resistance i mean you was asking in old post if toyota could be used with outlander motor and a voltaje divider with resistor. So it is not clear to me if I can use the toyota pedal i have or I need a VW POLO pedal (which year ?) with aot vcu
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Re: Outlander VCU - Rear inverter, Charger and BMS

Post by arber333 »

aot93 wrote: Fri Nov 03, 2023 10:24 am Hi Arber,

I still have pre charge resistor and pre charge contactor - just a better quality one and more checks in the code.
Charger and heater are all connector to the inverter bus bar as OEM, so a precharge sequence is required to use either.

My chademo system uses a second pair of contactors to connect directly to the battery so no pre-charge needed there, again this mostly follows the OEM layout.

In my case an atiny monitors the PP pin and switches a relay to bring up the main VCU and BMS in a charging state if a charge plug is connected.
The wiring diagrams linked in the first post might help explain it (they don't show chademo)
I apologize for asking again. But i am not sure how to connect inverter pin13. How do you use this IGCT signal? I use two signals, enable signal to start precharge and start signal to latch main contactor.
My view is to connect in13 to 12V when precharge will finish and contactor comes ON. Would that be good or not? I am not so sure as i see in your code you observe inverter voltage on precharge. So should inverter be 12V powered before precharge or after?
tnx
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Re: Outlander VCU - Rear inverter, Charger and BMS

Post by aot93 »

chentron wrote: Wed Nov 15, 2023 4:13 pm I am not programmer but i imagine will write lot of "#" anywhere i see the word BMS in main.cpp file...
Can you share notes of meaning for BMS_status values and other variables involved ?
Could you tell us one thing about chademo: an expensive Isabellenhutte shunt or others will be needed ?
Hi,

I will send you a version you can test with via DM without the BMS hooks, there is not much to change just hard code some values.

As for chademo, I used an ISA from ipace, but there is no reason you could not use any kind of current and voltage measurement device.
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Re: Outlander VCU - Rear inverter, Charger and BMS

Post by aot93 »

arber333 wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 12:11 am My view is to connect in13 to 12V when precharge will finish and contactor comes ON. Would that be good or not? I am not so sure as i see in your code you observe inverter voltage on precharge. So should inverter be 12V powered before precharge or after?
tnx
Yes I read voltage from inverter and also measure rise time as this can be a good indication of a welded contactor or failed pre-charge resistor or failed inverter etc.. we also check the charger sees the good voltage to on the HV-bus just to be sure.
So yes for me the inverter is powered on with the ignition key.

Charging is a separate case and the inverter is not powered so just look at the charger HV for precharge.
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Re: Outlander VCU - Rear inverter, Charger and BMS

Post by jrbe »

arber333 wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 12:11 am I apologize for asking again. But i am not sure how to connect inverter pin13. How do you use this IGCT signal? I use two signals, enable signal to start precharge and start signal to latch main contactor.
My view is to connect in13 to 12V when precharge will finish and contactor comes ON. Would that be good or not? I am not so sure as i see in your code you observe inverter voltage on precharge. So should inverter be 12V powered before precharge or after?
tnx
Most microcontrollers don't like voltage on IO when powered down. Seems STM32's can handle up to 4v on 5v tolerant IO pins while powered down.
I'd personally want to power the microcontroller first then the high voltage for this reason. I can't think of a reason to power up the inverter after precharge.
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Re: Outlander VCU - Rear inverter, Charger and BMS

Post by crasbe »

jrbe wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 1:45 pm Most microcontrollers don't like voltage on IO when powered down. Seems STM32's can handle up to 4v on 5v tolerant IO pins while powered down.
I'd personally want to power the microcontroller first then the high voltage for this reason. I can't think of a reason to power up the inverter after precharge.
Furthermore you have another effect when applying voltage to the IOs when the microcontroller is powered down: Every IO has clamping diodes to prevent over- and undervoltage on the input. When no supply voltage is applied, the input voltage is higher than the supply voltage, which means the clamping diode will become conductive. Essentially you're backfeeding voltage to the supply via the IO pin. In some cases this can be enough to power up the microcontroller. However, it might not be stable enough for reliable operation, so the microcontroller can be in a "weird" state when the power supply is actually present.
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Re: Outlander VCU - Rear inverter, Charger and BMS

Post by arber333 »

aot93 wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 1:33 pm Yes I read voltage from inverter and also measure rise time as this can be a good indication of a welded contactor or failed pre-charge resistor or failed inverter etc.. we also check the charger sees the good voltage to on the HV-bus just to be sure.
So yes for me the inverter is powered on with the ignition key.

Charging is a separate case and the inverter is not powered so just look at the charger HV for precharge.
Thank you!

Yes i split the power from charger, inverter and heater from the starting(latching) circuit and connected it to Enable circuit from 2nd position of the key. Now the inverter, heater and charger will get power from enable circuit before the precharge will start.
I decided to power the charger, heater and inverter together from the same wire. This will allow me to control precharge and DC contactor when i want to charge and also to run the heater at the time.
I will also connect any switching circuit ie. heater ON signal to the starting circuit to prevent using devices BEFORE precharge is complete.
I will have to redraw my schematic too, but it is not complete yet...
Will post some photos later.
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Re: Outlander VCU - Rear inverter, Charger and BMS

Post by chentron »

which throttle would be adequate for this VCU ? A VW polo year 2014? audi a4 2000 ?
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Re: Outlander VCU - Rear inverter, Charger and BMS

Post by arber333 »

chentron wrote: Tue Nov 28, 2023 12:29 pm which throttle would be adequate for this VCU ? A VW polo year 2014? audi a4 2000 ?
I am using Toyota Auris pedal. Could also be Prius...
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Re: Outlander VCU - Rear inverter, Charger and BMS

Post by aot93 »

Yes most VAG pedals from 2000 on should work, a good PN is 6Q2721503G
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Re: Outlander VCU - Rear inverter, Charger and BMS

Post by chentron »

where in the ipace car is located the ISA ? I am going to search for a used one and most wreckers dont know what this part it is and where is located
aot93 wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 1:19 pm Hi,

I will send you a version you can test with via DM without the BMS hooks, there is not much to change just hard code some values.

As for chademo, I used an ISA from ipace, but there is no reason you could not use any kind of current and voltage measurement device.
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Re: Outlander VCU - Rear inverter, Charger and BMS

Post by EV_Builder »

In the battery pack.
Converting an Porsche Panamera
see http://www.wdrautomatisering.nl for bespoke BMS modules.
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Re: Outlander VCU - Rear inverter, Charger and BMS

Post by arber333 »

aot93 wrote: Fri Nov 17, 2023 1:33 pm Yes I read voltage from inverter and also measure rise time as this can be a good indication of a welded contactor or failed pre-charge resistor or failed inverter etc.. we also check the charger sees the good voltage to on the HV-bus just to be sure.
So yes for me the inverter is powered on with the ignition key.

Charging is a separate case and the inverter is not powered so just look at the charger HV for precharge.
Again i am using your VCU module as i cant programm my version fast enough.
Please let me know how i could change the code to invert D21 input so i could connect PP signal directly from charging port. I dont like to use relay for this...
My PP wiring uses 2K7 resistor inside socket which when connected with plug becomes 470R to GND.
Therefore my idea is to add one 1K pullup resistor to ISO 8(E4 pin) to directly sense change in PP signal to start charging process.

So should i change code for "ppDetect" inside readPins() function to invert it so it is active when signal is absent? Then PP signal would pulldown on the pin when plug is inserted...
Like this: ppDetect = !digitalRead(ISO_IN8);

What do you suggest?

tnx
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Re: Outlander VCU - Rear inverter, Charger and BMS

Post by chentron »

is it inside this box ?
imagen.png
imagen.png (46.98 KiB) Viewed 27210 times
EV_Builder wrote: Wed Dec 13, 2023 8:24 pm In the battery pack.
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Re: Outlander VCU - Rear inverter, Charger and BMS

Post by arber333 »

chentron wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 8:17 pm is it inside this box ?
imagen.png
Check this... viewtopic.php?t=1182
There are big fuses under the black plastic cover where three copper lines are leading on top of the batterry back to front.
There are large contactors and analog LEM current sensor as well.
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Re: Outlander VCU - Rear inverter, Charger and BMS

Post by aot93 »

arber333 wrote: Thu Dec 14, 2023 7:40 am Again i am using your VCU module as i cant programm my version fast enough.
Please let me know how i could change the code to invert D21 input so i could connect PP signal directly from charging port. I dont like to use relay for this...
Hi Sorry I missed this...

Yes that should work, you will also have to change from BMS reporting charging in the state handler to the status of PP.

Code: Select all

  case ready:
  {
    if (BMS_Status == 3)
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Re: Outlander VCU - Rear inverter, Charger and BMS

Post by arber333 »

aot93 wrote: Sat Dec 16, 2023 2:03 pm Hi Sorry I missed this...

Yes that should work, you will also have to change from BMS reporting charging in the state handler to the status of PP.

Code: Select all

  case ready:
  {
    if (BMS_Status == 3)
OK thank you.

I have now wired the connector and relays. However since my original plan included ESP32 with a PWM output which would output a frequency mapped to the motor RPM CAN report, as i use a fixed drive ratio with OEM gearbox that would be excellent speedo output. But i dont see any pin reserved for that kind of output with your Teensy board.
Can you think of an output which would best perform the variable PWM function from 0Hz to 200Hz?

My idea was to use either "temp gauge", "Rev lights", "Out7" pin or "Brake lights" pin. Which of them would you suggest for PWM outpu?
Should i simply add 1K resistor to the output connector?
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