Help! Prius gen3 inverter using ABZ encoder

[arber333]

I got the motor spinning with throttle pedal with the sine firmware. Not very smoothly at the moment. But it spins rather nicely in testing mode. Anybody knows if it is in fact possible to drive the car with synchronous motor in sensorless mode with sine firmware? Which parameters I should try to adjust? Thanks

Yes it is possible in V/Hz but motor will heat up and you are stressing your power section.
Sine works with introducing slip to the rotating field. So when i tried to run Leaf motor i started to add 1Hz and then 2 Hz slip and so on... and increasing ampnom. Like i said motor sung and whined to me .

[m.art.y]

Received the encoder. Mounting adapter in production. Which inputs on the prius gen3 I connect the encoder outputs?

[arber333]

Received the encoder. Mounting adapter in production. Which inputs on the prius gen3 I connect the encoder outputs?

Well i am not sure. See schematic for Prius board and connect as you would connect gen3 Johannes board to Sin and Cos inputs. You can omit Exc and Exc! pins as your encoder is internally excited.
On encoder you only use 4 wires: 5V, GND, Sin and Cos.

[m.art.y]

See schematic for Prius board and connect as you would connect gen3 Johannes board to Sin and Cos inputs.

This is how the encoder mounting adapter looks like





I'd like to try it tomorrow if I can figure out which inputs to connect to

[m.art.y]

I connected the encoder to pin 18 (Resolver SIN) and 19 (Resolver COS) on the gen 3 apseal connector. I also connected it to 5v and ground. On sine firmware I chose Sin/Cos and respolepairs to 1. I then started plotting angle. This is what I got (motor stationary):


Then I started spinning the motor with sine firmware and from what I managed to screencapture plot was:


Then I increases data points and burst length on the plot and got:



The plot looked weird and I decided to try to plot it in the FOC firmware. I loaded FOC and checked what the angle was and it was 180.03 degrees and it never moved again. I tried spinning the motor by hand - no change, no reaction. Loaded sine again as I saw some action there before but there angle is 180.03 also and it does not change!

What now? Something obviously happened for it to go from some sort of reading to none. I did not use shielded cable for testing yet. Could it have been affected by the spinning of the motor with sine firmware?

This encoder does not need to be configured according to motor pole pairs.

[arber333]

Cant you post pics straight into this forum? You are making a mess...

Now that you have a signal try to determine your encoder physical 0 position and then search for offset of rotor magnet 0 position.
Use procedure on the wiki.
https://openinverter.org/wiki/Using_FOC_Software
Also if your motor spins in reverse you change phase cables or sin/cos lines. Then you need to search for offset again.

[m.art.y]

Sorry about the photos, I'm pretty sure I am not allowed to upload them directly to the forum.

Ok so I read foc tuning again and I realized I had disconnected forward signal when changing to FOC. So I reconnected it and I got encoder to plot again in the sine firmware. However as before it moves from 0 to 360 degrees with motor being stationary?

Then hoping same trick will work with FOC i uploaded FOC again, put forward direction, put inverter in Run mode, also tried manual run but I get exactly the same 180.03 degrees angle which does not change when I spin the motor by hand.

My thought is something is preventing FOC to read that signal or start the inverter? I did try some small manualid and I hear noise from the motor but no movement at all. My motor temperature sensor is not connected. Could this be an issue? Anything else I should check?

[arber333]

Sorry about the photos, I'm pretty sure I am not allowed to upload them directly to the forum.

Ok so I read foc tuning again and I realized I had disconnected forward signal when changing to FOC. So I reconnected it and I got encoder to plot again in the sine firmware. However as before it moves from 0 to 360 degrees with motor being stationary?

Then hoping same trick will work with FOC i uploaded FOC again, put forward direction, put inverter in Run mode, also tried manual run but I get exactly the same 180.03 degrees angle which does not change when I spin the motor by hand.

My thought is something is preventing FOC to read that signal or start the inverter? I did try some small manualid and I hear noise from the motor but no movement at all. My motor temperature sensor is not connected. Could this be an issue? Anything else I should check?

That is a nice implementation.
Did you connect encoder correctly?
1. From you photo you need to solder wires in the order: Sin, Cos, GND, Vcc from left to right
2. Then you need to test if the Sin/Cos lines outputs are rising in voltage if you slowly spin the motor. You need a small scope for this set to 1V sensing.
3. Is the magnet close enough for the chip to sense it?
4. If that is good You need to inspect the inputs on mainboard. Encoder output is 2.2V peak to peak so there may be some resistors on main board that are pulling the signal down or limiting it. You will also get best results with a scope here.
5. Did you check If you connected to correct inputs? There are several drawings here on forum/wiki how resolver input should be connected.

Also do not forget you need to select Sin/Cos in parameters as that will exclude exciter from putting out its pulses which could interfere with our setup.

Try to get small scope, DSO or similar, it will make your life a lot easier...

[m.art.y]

That is a nice implementation.
Did you connect encoder correctly?
1. From you photo you need to solder wires in the order: Sin, Cos, GND, Vcc from left to right
2. Then you need to test if the Sin/Cos lines outputs are rising in voltage if you slowly spin the motor. You need a small scope for this set to 1V sensing.
3. Is the magnet close enough for the chip to sense it?
4. If that is good You need to inspect the inputs on mainboard. Encoder output is 2.2V peak to peak so there may be some resistors on main board that are pulling the signal down or limiting it. You will also get best results with a scope here.
5. Did you check If you connected to correct inputs? There are several drawings here on forum/wiki how resolver input should be connected.

Also do not forget you need to select Sin/Cos in parameters as that will exclude exciter from putting out its pulses which could interfere with our setup.

Try to get small scope, DSO or similar, it will make your life a lot easier...

As I was thinking overnight about it I suspected prius gen 3 is not getting the signal and sine firmware angle reading is just meaningless. And today I removed the encoder and sine firmware was still showing same curve, I spun the motor, same curve, I placed the magnet on the underside of the encoder, same curve. In FOC it is just the same 180.03 degrees reading with no change at all.
I have selected Sin/Cos and respolepairs as 1.
I have soldered the wires correctly.
Do I need to connect the Sin/Cos outputs to resolver Sin/Cos imputs or do I need to connect it to Encoder A and B imputs?
I don't even know how to use a scope..

[m.art.y]

Arber, I have searched the forum and found you have asked same question about how to wire the same encoder:

"It says signal is 1.1V each across reference so 2.2V in all. Can you tell me how to connect Sin and Cos signal wires? Do i just connect Sin to encA and Cos to encB? Minus pullups of course..."

Have you found the answer?

[arber333]

Do I need to connect the Sin/Cos outputs to resolver Sin/Cos imputs or do I need to connect it to Encoder A and B imputs?
I don't even know how to use a scope..

Hm... if i understand correctly you dont know where to connect Sin/Cos signal from encoder.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=18
There is an edited pic on the forum, i think RetroZero made very nice drawings of resolver wiring for gen3 main board. I am not sure where on the forum it is.
You can see resolver circuit has 6 pins where only 2 pins are actual inputs. Those are Enc A and Enc B inputs. Enc Z with resolver option is turned to output PWM function and with Sin/Cos it is off. The rest of the wiring is excitation and power supply.

Read instruction from wiki https://openinverter.org/wiki/Toyota_Prius_Gen3_Board

Connecting Resolver
For resolver connect EXC to one side of the exciter winding and other to Ground.
Connect one side of SIN winding to SIN and other to Encoder A
Conenct one side of COS winding to COS and other to encoder B.

In your case you only have 2 signals so you connect like this:
Connect SIN output to Encoder A
Conenct COS output to encoder B.
Of course select Sin/Cos in parameters.

EDIT: I see you have read about this already...

[m.art.y]

In your case you only have 2 signals so you connect like this:
Connect SIN output to Encoder A
Conenct COS output to encoder B.
Of course select Sin/Cos in parameters.

EDIT: I see you have read about this already...

Thanks Arber I have wired it wrong. I will change it and test now.

[Martin1775]

I've seen there are answers in the meantime, but here ist my answer:

You have to connect the sin and cos Signal to the ENC_1/SINB and ENC_2/COSB Line as the SINA and SINB are the fixed voltage for the resolver coil to get 1,65V as middle point for measurement. Name from the PriusG3_V1c schematic.

I think from the description of the encoder it is posible that you need a voltage divider, because the input voltage of the board is max. 3,3V and it says the output voltage from the encoder is 3/5 of VDD plus/minus 1,1V Signal, so it result in 1,9V to 4.1V.

You should be able te measure the outpul voltage when rotating the motor, and there should be a change of the value even if the voltage is to high.

[m.art.y]

In your case you only have 2 signals so you connect like this:
Connect SIN output to Encoder A
Conenct COS output to encoder B.
Of course select Sin/Cos in parameters.

Tried this now. I connected SIN to encoder A, and COS to encoder B. Good news it is showing a reading when I spin the motor. The angle plot:


Bad news is the reading is not full 360 degrees but goes from around 120 degrees to around 240. Also at idle I saw some higher spikes that is probably noise:



What now? Signal voltage range is wrong?

[m.art.y]

I think from the description of the encoder it is posible that you need a voltage divider, because the input voltage of the board is max. 3,3V and it says the output voltage from the encoder is 3/5 of VDD plus/minus 1,1V Signal, so it result in 1,9V to 4.1V.

Voltage divider for both Sin and Cos outputs? How would I make it please? I have such an issue where I can't understand electronics easily. Even something that is very easy for you it is hard for me. I can solder 50 way connector on gen3 board 50 times or take the car apart and put it back together but electronics is my stumbling block. I would appreciate the help.. I can wire it if somebody explicitly tells me how but that's about it.

[m.art.y]

You should be able te measure the outpul voltage when rotating the motor, and there should be a change of the value even if the voltage is to high.

I measured both Sin and Cos outputs across encoder ground and the values are changing when I rotate the motor. I think the highest reading I saw was around 4.94 v. How do I construct the voltage divider circuit, which value do I take as my Vin and at what value I need to end up?

[arber333]

You should be able te measure the outpul voltage when rotating the motor, and there should be a change of the value even if the voltage is to high.

I measured both Sin and Cos outputs across encoder ground and the values are changing when I rotate the motor. I think the highest reading I saw was around 4.94 v. How do I construct the voltage divider circuit, which value do I take as my Vin and at what value I need to end up?

You need to measure against pin GND not Vcc! When you rotate shaft by hand voltage will rise on one pin and fall on the other one.
You should see cca +/-1V from sine to GND. Vcc is there only to supply encoder chip. Output should allways be +/-1.1V. Therefore you shouldnt need any divider.
Also you absolutely need to connect motor casing to inverter case. Otherwise up to 200Vac can crawl across GND.

EDIT: Try to disconnect encoder and measure pins Enc A and Enc B. Do you have pullup resistors connected? If so you need to desolder them because they interfeere with sin/cos signals.
So to test only signals disconnect encoder and measure GND - Sin or GND - Cos voltages and move rotor slowly. You should see 4 quarter transitions from 0V to 1V and from 1V to 0V and 0V to -1V and -1V to 0V in 360deg depending where you started.

Like i said any scope (even DSC) would be invaluble for diagnosing your connection.

[m.art.y]

You need to measure against pin GND not Vcc!

This is what I had done. I will disconnect encoder from the inverter and try to measure again.

EDIT: Try to disconnect encoder and measure pins Enc A and Enc B. Do you have pullup resistors connected? If so you need to desolder them because they interfeere with sin/cos signals.

To measure enc A and Enc B pins against what - inverter ground? Do I measure resistance or voltage? I do remember reading Damien mentioning pull up resistors for induction motor encoders present on the board. When I desolder them do I need to solder a simple wire in it's place? I am so sorry but this is incredibly hard for me..

[Martin1775]

From the description of the encoder the output voltage is +/- 1,1V from 3/5 Vdd in the diagram, or +/- 1,1V from 2,5V in the text as offset.

The +/- 1,1V you will only measure with a oscilloscop in AC Mode. The board need an Input between 0V and +3,3V to GND as signal, otherwise it had to be adapted, so that the value on the analog input of the STM is in that range. The GND from the Encoder or 12V will be fine. Not the HV GND.

On the board there are R29 and R30 (1kOhm) as pull up for the input of the signal to 5V so it is possible that the voltage will be shiftet to a higher level.
I would fist remove R29 and R30, then you have to make a voltage divider to adapt the output voltage. It should have a resistor in series (3k3) to the input and a second resistor (10k) from the input attached to ground, or parallel to C27 and C28.
It is the same as for the ANALOG INPUTS DC_BUS1 / DC_BUS2 in the PriusG3_V1c to adapt the 5V Signal to 3,3V.

The Signal will than reduce to +/- 0,7V with an offset of ca. 1,65V. If the signal is not sufficient it gets more complicated, then the signal has to be processed with a capacitor and possibly an amplifier.

[m.art.y]

I measured again with encoder signals disconnected from the gen3 inverter and across encoder ground and the signals I still get something like 4.8 v (possibly a touch higher this is just what I caught with multimeter.
Would you be able to show how to wire that resistor divider as I am really struggling..

[m.art.y]

Before I have assembled this from 120 ohm and 220 ohm resistors. This did not work the signal was not readable for the inverter. Then I swapped the inputs with same resistors and I got the reading but about the same from 120 to 240 degrees. When I measured from encoder ground to the signals they were at around 1 volt peak or higher. But I guess this isn't a valid divider circuit anyway as signal probably just goes across one resistor and that's it.

[arber333]

I measured again with encoder signals disconnected from the gen3 inverter and across encoder ground and the signals I still get something like 4.8 v (possibly a touch higher this is just what I caught with multimeter.
Would you be able to show how to wire that resistor divider as I am really struggling..

What the #"$ are you doing with encoder pins! They should just have soldered wires directly. Remove those resistors because they are not helping. If you have to do anything to the circuit you must do it as close to input(inverter) as possible.
1. Now from your measurement i think you measured signal between RLS encoder GND and Sin/Cos signals and got 1V or so yes? That is good.
2. If i understend correctly you also measured signals Enc A/Enc B to GND on inverter circuit without RLS connected? If you got 4,8V that means you have pullup resistors on them inputs. There should be 10K resistors on input lines. Try to find them. From schematic for MG2 i see they are R130 and R129 and their value seems 1K to me which is quite high! Just remove them and use circuit direct.

EDIT: Damn, now i forgot that ENC A and B pins AD cant measure negative values! Yes you need to provide correct pullup divider so that Sin/Cos signal will drain pins Enc A and B approximately to 0V when signal will be at negative -1.1V. This means you need approximately 2.2V divider. There is already 10K on the line. Now you need to provide 6K8 or 7K6 divider to get signal to 2V.
What i would do is remove those R130/R129. Then i would put 10K resistors in their place. This is actually not needed because i see 12mA drain capability on RLS chip and 1K pullup provides less power. So this step is not needed actually...
Then i would add 6K8 resistor across 1nF caps so you would get 2.2V signal. You may have to use 7K6 or 8K2 resistor to get correct voltage...
Now try to measure your circuit when you rotate rotor. Should move from 0V to 2.2V approximately.

Caution to others, i think we need to put something to Wiki. Like "In case you use Sin/Cos circuit with Toyota Gen3 board add 6K8 pulldown resistors across 1nF caps." Just to eliminate future mishaps.

A

[m.art.y]

What the #"$ are you doing with encoder pins! They should just have soldered wires directly. Remove those resistors because they are not helping. If you have to do anything to the circuit you must do it as close to input(inverter) as possible.

Removed those now. I was saying electronics is like rocket science to me..

1. Now from your measurement i think you measured signal between RLS encoder GND and Sin/Cos signals and got 1V or so yes? That is good.

I only got that 1V with the above resistors in place.. without them I get around 4.80V at peak.

2. If i understend correctly you also measured signals Enc A/Enc B to GND on inverter circuit without RLS connected? If you got 4,8V that means you have pullup resistors on them inputs. There should be 10K resistors on input lines. Try to find them. From schematic for MG2 i see they are R130 and R129 and their value seems 1K to me which is quite high! Just remove them and use circuit direct.

I tried measuring resistance which gave me close to open circuit. Will try measuring voltage. I got the Prius V1c board. The schematic for encoder circuit is:



Do you mean to add those resistors across C28 and C27 - like solder one pin of resistor to one pin of C28 and another pin of resistor to another pin of C28 and then do same with C27? Just want to make sure to not do anything silly.. And by R130/R129 do you mean R30 and R29? Just remove those?

[arber333]

Ok, i am not following the various revisions of Damiens Prius board, i only have one schematic of Prius gen3 board.

From your schematic i see you should just solder one 6K8 resistor over C20 and C27 each. This should divide the 5V enough for the RLS to drain it at its lowest voltage of -1.1V. You should confirm this works first with multimeter rotating the shaft and then inside inverter interface.
You can vary the pulldown resistor value a bit untill you get close to smooth 360deg as possible.

Yes Sin/Cos lines are connected to MG2.SINB and MG2.COSB. You should ignore MG2.SINA and MG2.COSA.

A

[Martin1775]

I'm mostly with arber333.

Remove R29 and R30.
Connect the Encoder SIN and COS to MG2_SINB and MG2_COSB (Connector MG2_ENC_1 and MG2_ENC_2).

Only as I understand you should use a voltage divider so that the offset will be 1,65V as Johannes answers you in the other post viewtopic.php?f=7&p=20586#p20555. So the voltage you measure above C27 or C28 with parallel resistor will be between 0,93V and 2,4V. With arbers solution you will get between 0,56V and 1,46V that may be work althought.

So I would try to solder 20k resistor parallel to C27 and C28, then you don't need any additional componets outside the board. I dont see any harm if you use different resistor values.