[WIP] Voltswagen T2 -76

[muehlpower]

A VW from 76 has no water pipes, there are air ducts for the interior, which draw the warm air around the exhaust!

[Cera]

Pretty much yes.

Heh if only they'd be water hoses. Those pipes run the length of the car's underside and carry the warm air from the engine (rear mounted) straight into the cabin. With no filter in between. Got to love 60's innovation.

Luckily for DIY'ers it's a well documented thing: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewt ... p?t=642197
and: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewt ... 47#9310747

Throwing these here for others who may come after me for their classic VW conversions At least people can be prepared...

EDIT: and yeah I'm getting rid of the whole air hoses. Just need to figure out the smart way to do it now when I cannot remove the seals.

[DaveH]

Welcome to VW bus ownership! Same colour as mine too! Looks like the original paint?

The only water in these is in the washer bottle.

[Cera]

Thanks!

I checked your build too when I started mine. It was one of the inspirations that finally made me decide on electric route.

it's painted at least once on top of original, I know this because the current paint isn't sprayed, it's.. painted. You can see the strokes of a brush

Will have to repaint because the rust situation probably means sandblasting anyways, but most likely will keep the colour.

It also isn't exactly the same colour from the outside than the original I can see behind the bumpers and in the cabin. Outside is more matte. This pic from the time of fetching it back home shows it clearly:

[DaveH]

The paint goes like that after a long time because of oxidation. Mine was the same when I got it (in 1997).

[Cera]

de-ICEing complete!

This is the pile of stuff that won't be going back to the car, at least not in that shape or form. T4 engine, its transmission, firewalls and insulation, fuel tank, filler hoses, and so on. Also just pure trash like old window seals in the plastic bags.



Empty former engine bay, future motor bay Looots of sand and dirt still in there though, but all the metal looks pretty good.



Also went ahead and removed the side and rear windows, side cover panels, sliding door with its mechanism, and so on. Preparing the chassis for the eventual sandblasting and repaint. Still the front section to go.

Bits and bops that can be re-used after some cleaning/painting/etc. Mostly rusty metal panels, windows and interior parts like stereo.



I think I need to start hunting new tyres too soon.. I haven't really solved how I'll get this to sandblasting (which I don't have the tools nor space to do myself) but new tyres will make moving the chassis much easier in general.. I don't know if it's better to disassemble and repair the axles and suspensions before or after sandblasting ._. I mean..

Option 1) is to just get new tyres and the chassis into rolling condition. Take it for sandblasting and base coat paint with the old suspension parts in there, which would mean that areas such as bolt holes or stuff below them doesn't get blasted nor painted, which'd be slightly annoying.

Option 2) is to jack up the whole chassis now, drop the front axle for overhaul and clean / powder coat / repair all of it, then wirebrush the mounting points and bolt the "brand new" axle into the otherwise rusty chassis.. then do the same for the rear suspension arms, brakes, etc. Then roll the chassis into sandblasting with "new" suspension and brakes and stuff...

I don't know which is better!

Ah well. Still some disassembly to do before I need to seriously think about the next steps

I also got confirmation from our vehicle inspectors about the conversion. I was correct in that my maximum motor power will be 12kg/kW. So assuming 1220kg as the gross weight, it'd be 101kW. With more mass, more power. I think 110kW Leaf stack would possibly be the best option within these limits since I assume batteries and other things will bring up the weight to allow that. One inspector replied that a EM57 specsheet from Nissan would suffice to prove the motor power. Other inspector said that power measurement report from a dyno testing is also possible, if no specsheet is available.

Also I need to have a heater too, I was kinda planning on just skipping that, but apparently defogging is mandatory makes sense I guess. Otherwise just the "normal" rules based on the EU legislation, such as orange colour for HV, warning symbols into HV hardware, etc.

[ZooKeeper]

de-ICEing complete!

This is the pile of stuff that won't be going back to the car, at least not in that shape or form. T4 engine, its transmission, firewalls and insulation, fuel tank, filler hoses, and so on. Also just pure trash like old window seals in the plastic bags.



Empty former engine bay, future motor bay Looots of sand and dirt still in there though, but all the metal looks pretty good.



Also went ahead and removed the side and rear windows, side cover panels, sliding door with its mechanism, and so on. Preparing the chassis for the eventual sandblasting and repaint. Still the front section to go.

Put another way, a De-Fossilized fossil

Seems some plastic (PVC) piping might be just the trick for the heater/defrosting and can cool the motor and electronics as a side benefit

[Ctwidle]

My 72 superbug restoration is nearing completion so I’m soon going to have to make some similar decisions. I initially bought an MGR and a Yaris inverter but later upgraded to an Outlander rear motor. I dont think the Zombieverter is sufficiently advanced to be within my plug and play limitations so a Leaf stack may be the way to go for me to.

A local supplier of EV parts suggests that the demisting requirements for the Australian conditions can be met by plumbing in a 12v camping hairdryer. I am hoping to add a/c to mine via the original route through the sills.

Unless you think the restoration/conversion is going to be over quickly then provided the current tyres hold air leave them on as long as possible. ‘New’ tyres are often a couple of years old when you buy them and unless its a daily driver they are going to time expire before they wear out. On the same topic I am looking at 1) low rolling resistance ‘eco’ tyres, 2) run flats to save mass and space (if I can find them in 165/80/15) 3), white walls ‘cos they will look good with a sky blue/white colour scheme.

Looking forward to watching your build!

[Cera]

That sounds like a good project as well! VW bugs are super cool

I'll think of the heater situation when I get there, but options seem to be so plenty. Electric heater and fan blower shouldn't cost too much and I can route the air via the original air ducts, just place the heater into different location so I don't have to run pipes back to motor bay.

Two of these tyres are completely flat, they hold air for 1-2h but that's about it. That makes moving the car even inside the garage a proper pain.

For my daily driver I've had Nokia Hakka Green for low rolling resistance, but I don't know if those are available in your location or in that size

[ZooKeeper]

I actually tested a "regular" line voltage hair dryer at similar DC voltage, worked just fine

[Cera]

Disassembly complete! Waiting for the outdoor temperature to rise above 0C, then pushing this out from the garage for pressure washer.



Some rust hiding beneath the windscreen seal. Typical place for almost all vehicles.





Overall does not look too bad. I found few rotten spots from the bottom too and looks like at least one of the crossbeams needs to be redone. Compared to other T2 barn finds it could still be much worse.

Ended up covering the asbestos seals with liberal amounts of regular PVA glue to encapsulate all the fibers. Then pried them off as one chunk of rubbery glue at next day and disposed as hazardous waste. That's them safely sorted as well.

Negotiating with local shop about chassis works.

Started looking for the Leaf motor as well. It would seem that EM61 is more available in my region, but I've read from here that EM57 is more often used, so I might look for that instead. I haven't measured the motor bay yet so I don't know if it'll fit as a stack or if the inverter needs to be removed and relocated as in EM61. Once I have chassis work sorted, I think I'll make mock-ups about batteries and motors from cardboard to see what fits and where.

Is there a reason why I definitely shouldn't go with EM61 if one presents itself with good pricepoint? Some custom inverter boards or VCU not compatible? Difficult to source some parts that I'll end up needing? Anything?

I'm also trying to understand Leaf stack required "aftermarket" boards and what will I need when the time comes. Openinverter Gen2 replacement board, ZombieVerter VCU, what have you...

[Cera]

Oh I also heard that with Leaf stack the motor and the inverter should be from "one unit" (i.e. matching.. serial numbers or something?) for it to work properly? i.e. if I buy the motor part, and then from another source the inverter part, will there be issues?

[johu]

The resolver offset (static angular error of the resolver) is programmed into the inverter. You can match a motor to a "foreign" inverter by using the numbers printed on the motor and some special CAN messages. I think it is described here somewhere in the Nissan section and the tool "Leaf Spy" also supports doing this.

[Cera]

Yeah I'm leaning towards EM61 for its separate construction, just trying to figure out it's not something that turns out to be incompatible with most of the available VCU stuff. All I'm seeing is about EM57 confusing.

I need to study more about what kind of board(s) I'll need to control with it..

EDIT to specify:

I mean, currently as I understand it... Inverter controls the motor, and VCU controls the inverter based on inputs from throttle and so on. Am I correct?

With EM57 there is the opensource board that can be placed inside the inverter, with EM61 I am unable to find any.
I assume ZombieVerter being VCU would work to control both...

Have I got this right?

[arber333]

Have I got this right?

There is still a small thing of resolver timing. I advise you to go hunting for complete Nissan stack. That way you will get motor and inverter with preprogrammed timing.

[Cera]

Yeah looking for a full stack in either case now. Thank you for that confirmation.

I'm just trying to find out what's the "best" option, I understand it's difficult to say and everything can be tweaked if enough motivation EM61 would fit better, EM57 seems to have better support. Any other differences I should be aware of? CHAdeMO?

[arber333]

Yeah looking for a full stack in either case now. Thank you for that confirmation.

I'm just trying to find out what's the "best" option, I understand it's difficult to say and everything can be tweaked if enough motivation EM61 would fit better, EM57 seems to have better support. Any other differences I should be aware of? CHAdeMO?

Well then use EM61 stack then. I think i remember someone from diyelecrticcar forum transplanted complete leaf to another car.
I went and used EM61 motor with Volt inverter just because i didnt know i could use CAN bus with Leaf inverter.

[Bigpie]

Love these, wish I had one
BTW https://openinverter.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1895 might be useful if you get mismatched motor/inverter

[Bratitude]

I haven’t confirmed yet if the diff splines on the em61 and the em57 gear box are the same. But I I’m very close to having the vw stub shafts for the em57 gearbox done.

they’ll have a bug irs transmission spline on the opposite end so type 1,2,4 or 108mm(930) flanges work.

But I agree, the em61 gearbox/motor is definitely easier to fit compared to the em75

Type 2 cv pictured here.

[arber333]

I haven’t confirmed yet if the diff splines on the em61 and the em57 gear box are the same. But I I’m very close to having the vw stub shafts for the em57 gearbox done.

I have bought a wrong set of shafts for my EM61 motor way back in 2016. They were EM57 shafts from 2012 Leaf as in the end of the year they shifted production from EM61 to EM57. When i tried them on they would go in the gearbox but not all the way. It seems EM57 shafts are thicker than EM61 or have the wrong spline. When i got corect shafts everything fitted.
Anyone has more experience?

[Bratitude]

….. When i tried them on they would go in the gearbox but not all the way. It seems EM57 shafts are thicker than EM61 or have the wrong spline. When i got corect shafts everything fitted.
Anyone has more experience?

Yanik mentioned that the are sort of different.

But can’t tell if its just the oil seal lips that are interfering or the actual splines are different. I know that the oil seals on the em57 gear box are different sizes on ether side. As one side uses a jackshaft. Luckily the seals are swappable, so having a single stub shaft design for both end of the gear box is possible.

Quoteting from Janik: “ I have test fitted a junkyard find Nissan Primera P11 SR20DE left stub to leaf gen1 and its a perfect match for spline and seal dimension”

[NiklasBuilds]

Yeah looking for a full stack in either case now. Thank you for that confirmation.

I'm just trying to find out what's the "best" option, I understand it's difficult to say and everything can be tweaked if enough motivation EM61 would fit better, EM57 seems to have better support. Any other differences I should be aware of? CHAdeMO?

Hi! I'm also starting with a conversion here in Finland and I've been scouting for the last two years quite thoroughly different options and where different components are available for best prices with shipping to Finland. Would happily go through my notes with you. If you're interested please send me a private message. (I can't yet PM, since just created my account here for my project(s) )

[Cera]

Hi! I'm also starting with a conversion here in Finland and I've been scouting for the last two years quite thoroughly different options and where different components are available for best prices with shipping to Finland. Would happily go through my notes with you. If you're interested please send me a private message. (I can't yet PM, since just created my account here for my project(s) )

Nice will do thank you!

[Linukas]

Yeah looking for a full stack in either case now. Thank you for that confirmation.

I'm just trying to find out what's the "best" option, I understand it's difficult to say and everything can be tweaked if enough motivation EM61 would fit better, EM57 seems to have better support. Any other differences I should be aware of? CHAdeMO?

Well then use EM61 stack then. I think i remember someone from diyelecrticcar forum transplanted complete leaf to another car.
I went and used EM61 motor with Volt inverter just because i didnt know i could use CAN bus with Leaf inverter.

some time ago I transplanted whole leaf electronics to 3ton boat and it still works good. I think, I even can find one complete kit for another transplant (except battery cells, but bms is still here, so need just cells)

[Cera]

Long time no update but motor is here at last!