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Posted: **Sat Dec 19, 2020 7:45 am**

arber333 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 7:57 pm
seanyt wrote: ↑Fri Dec 18, 2020 5:30 pm Data logthe canbus PIDS 285,286,287 and 371 at the same time for rear inverter control i believe.
285 is EVSE CP pulldown enable telegram
286 is charger voltage/current control telegram

287 i dont yet know, this might be the torque telegram?
371 is also unknown to me. Might be the inverter output?

You need to know CAN behaviour. Whatever has lower ID number has priority before other IDs.
Therefore everything below 3xx has priority and is usually reserved for traction or drive elements. Usually IDs above 3xx are reports from those elements.

I have seen the rear motor running standalone when sending these four pids.
This is why I mention to datalog them.

Capture them and send them back, the most important for torque demand is indeed 287 but the others are needed to satisfy the inverter to allow it to run.

I still have to finish my HV battery, in the mean time i have this motor /transmission bolted into my car and connected to driveshafts and inverter. Then I can begin testing too.

Posted: **Tue Feb 16, 2021 7:43 am**

Does anyone have a more complete breakdown of the CAN messages from the rear inverter? I have put together a DBC file for getting voltage and RPM, and we know the commands for getting it spinning, but that leaves a lot of output untranslated. I've not seen any captures from a live Outlander that cover e.g. 0x299, 0x29A, 0x566, 0x567, 0x56D, 0x667 , 0x668, 0x733. Be grateful if anyone has any clues.

Posted: **Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:47 pm**

Some good info in here; https://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/v ... =10&t=3643

Posted: **Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:54 pm**

tom91 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 16, 2021 2:47 pm Some good info in here; https://www.myoutlanderphev.com/forum/v ... =10&t=3643

Yeah I've grabbed the useful bits from that - basis of my DBC file. But leaves lots of unanswered questions. Inverter temp? Motor temp? Error messages? Sure those must be in there somewhere. Get lots more info from the charger/DC-DC.

Posted: **Tue Feb 16, 2021 6:01 pm**

Hmm must not be the base I found for the info I got.

These are the Inverter ones I found

Code: Select all

288_FrTrq,Front Trq,220288,(A*256+B-10000)/10,-200,200,Nm,
288_FrRPM,Front RPM,220288,C*256+D-20000,-10000,10000,RPM,
288_FrPwr,Front Power,220288,VAL{288_FrTrq}*VAL{288_FrRPM}/9548.8,-70,70,kW,
288_FrForce,Front Force,220288,VAL{288_FrTrq}*20.05,-5000,5000,N,
288_E,288_E,220288,E,0,255,?,
288_F,288_F,220288,F,0,255,?,
288_G,288_G,220288,G,0,255,?,
288_H,288_H,220288,H,0,255,?,

289_RrTrq,Rear Trq,220289,(A*256+B-10000)/10,-200,200,Nm,
289_RrRPM,Rear RPM,220289,C*256+D-20000,-10000,10000,RPM,
289_RrPwr,Rear Power,220289,VAL{289_RrTrq}*VAL{289_RrRPM}/9548.8,-70,70,kW,
289_RrForce,Rear Force,220289,VAL{289_RrTrq}*27.42,-5000,5000,N,

28B_GenTrq,Gen Trq,22028B,(A*256+B-10000)/10,-200,200,Nm,
28B_GenRPM,Gen RPM,22028B,C*256+D-20000,-10000,10000,RPM,
28B_GenPwr,Gen Power,22028B,VAL{28B_GenTrq}*VAL{28B_GenRPM}/9548.8,-70,70,kW,
28B_E,28B_E,22028B,E,0,255,?,
28B_F,28B_F,22028B,F,0,255,?,
28B_G,28B_G,22028B,G,0,255,?,
28B_H,28B_H,22028B,H,0,255,?,


732_RrCurr1,Rear Curr 1,220732,A*256+B-1000,0,255,A,
732_RrCurr2,Rear Curr 2,220732,C*256+D-1000,0,255,A,
732_RrDiff1,Rear Diff 1,220732,E,0,255,%,
732_RrDiff2,Rear Diff 2,220732,F,0,255,%,
732_G,732_G,220732,G,0,255,Cnt,
732_H,732_H,220732,H,0,255,Cnt,

734_GenCurr1,Generator Curr 1,220734,A*256+B-1000,0,255,A,
734_GenCurr2,Generator Curr 2,220734,C*256+D-1000,0,255,A,
734_GenDiff1,Generator Diff 1,220734,E,0,255,%,
734_GenDiff2,Generator Diff 2,220734,F,0,255,%,
734_G,734_G,220734,G,0,255,Cnt,
734_H,734_H,220734,H,0,255,Cnt,

75A_FrCurr1,Front Curr 1,22075A,A*256+B-1000,0,255,Cnt,
75A_FrCurr2,Front Curr 2,22075A,C*256+D-1000,0,255,Cnt,
75A_FrDiff1,Front Diff 1,22075A,E,0,255,%,
75A_FrDiff2,Front Diff 2,22075A,F,0,255,%,
75A_G,75A_G,22075A,G,0,255,Cnt,
75A_H,75A_H,22075A,H,0,255,Cnt,

However on the outlander forum I believe there are links to can logs for further analysis.

Posted: **Tue Feb 16, 2021 8:30 pm**

Unfortunately, I've been through all the can logs I can find from those forums. Nothing I can see that fills in the blanks. Nor from some pretty extensive googling. Sounds like I might have to try and work it out.

Posted: **Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:54 pm**

Hello All,

I've got my bench set up with the rear inverter and am successfully receiving messages from it. I believe I've got most of the info needed to send the right signals (one big realisation was that the Byte order is 'Motorola' format rather than 'Intel' i.e. MSB first.

I'm sending the signals mentioned above : 285, 286, 287 and 371 with values which match those from the recorded data in the PHEV vehicle log also shared above, but at the moment I'm not getting any rotation.

What I do see is byte 5 of 0x289 flicking between 0x24 and 0x0C.

I've also worked out that the last Byte of 0x289 appears to be the RSDN input pin state where 0 is connected to +12V and 04 is Not connected or grounded.

Do we need to sequence any signals to get the inverter in to a drive mode or any particular signal values on those above which need to be sent?

@Bobby_com_lately - check out this forum thread -RAS_66 posted a good breakdown of the CAN signals which details some more of the temperatures. The Chassis and Serial number are also reported by the REMCU. I've also been pulling a DBC together. I'm thinking of uploading it to GitHub so that it could be used as a centralised version which can be built on as we learn.

Cheers,
Scott

Posted: **Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:23 pm**

Hi All,

I have also received all the inverter CAN messages. I have also attempted to transmit the 286/286/287/371 CAN messages but with no rotation of the motor. I need to purchase a clamp meter to see if there is any current in the phases.

Also, my HV is only 36V. Is this too low to run the motor (the inverter seems to log the HV voltage ok).

Thanks
Mark

Posted: **Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:34 pm**

I've not had time to mess with anything for a while started building a testing rig but not finished. I seem to remember that the inverter has the same voltage limits as the charger so about 200v low and 420v max. I do seem to remember a weird effect tho of it spinning the motor slowly for no apparent reason when I connected a low voltage like 40v.

Posted: **Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:48 pm**

Hello I wright
I'm trying to get to a stage where all this you're talking about make sense. I am converting a classic mini with the rear outlander motor on its transxle. I have the inverter and charger and potentiometer. What else do I need to connect everything together. Do I need a PHEV box or not . how does everything connect and talk to each other. Im sure you can tell I'm new to this. Thanks for your patience

Wright

Posted: **Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:10 pm**

Hi Wright,

There are a few of us doing the same.
I already have most parts fitted to my mini, just waiting on a battery to start testing it all (maybe this weekend..)
I'm also just starting on my control setup, I'm using teensy 4.1 based board and hope to be able to control all the OEM parts with CAN.
The charger is easy and well documented, the inverter and motor less so...

I'll be happy to share once I get further along.
There was also talk of a control board being made, if / when this is available it should be fairly easy to get it all working.

Posted: **Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:06 am**

One of the guys from voltsport contacted me to say they have a controller that will work with the meiden motors? I will be trying to use as much of the OEM stuff as possible.
Ive been trying to do a deal on a battery pack, but its a good 3 hours drive away from me so Im worried it could be a lemon, i just wish there were more breakers in the southwest.

Posted: **Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:44 pm**

I've read through the posts on the outlander as much as poss, and issues aside, as anyone used the Prius Gen 2 inverter (with board) to control the Mitusbusihi outlander rear motor. I have the motor, the batteries are second life and I have an inverter straight off a car. I want to swap/ add the logic board and wire it all up. Just trying to understand the gen2 board, how does the resolver on the outlander, wire up to the board?

Posted: **Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:26 pm**

206-Quick-E wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:44 pm I've read through the posts on the outlander as much as poss, and issues aside, as anyone used the Prius Gen 2 inverter (with board) to control the Mitusbusihi outlander rear motor. I have the motor, the batteries are second life and I have an inverter straight off a car. I want to swap/ add the logic board and wire it all up. Just trying to understand the gen2 board, how does the resolver on the outlander, wire up to the board?

I have a gen2 inverter running a rear motor. Resolver wiring is the only tricky things but its a case of eliminating the wrong combinations of resolver wiring, the FOC tuning video helps with that. I have written more about this on the other Outlander Rear motor thread.

Posted: **Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:13 am**

I got a 13.8Kw outlander pack putting out 308v hooked it all up to the inverter, and tried sending data to 0x285, 0x286, 0x287 and 0x371 I'm using values I found here reard driving log except for 0x287 which are read in from a pot.
I have tried the RSDN line pulled high and low but still no rotation.
0x287 sending at 50ms others at 100ms

Can bus data is looking good, voltage and RSDN seen on 0x288, temperatures appear to be reading correctly, although shifted 1 bit to those RAS_666 sheet.

I will double check the resolver wiring as I had to splice onto used connectors with very short wire left.

I'll also try some of the other pid's from that log, 0x288 could be related???

Any further info would be gratefully received!

Edit - Spinning now!

it was the resolver connection not being 100% home. Seems to ramp up and down nice and smooth.
Going to strip back my code to work out exactly what CAN messages are required, will post more details and a video later tonight.

Posted: **Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:23 am**

Well done great news.
Looking forward to seeing the kw limit and will these inverters actually delivery over 200nm like i assume they will

Posted: **Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:46 am**

Are this native motor/inverter combo from the same car or will this work with motors and inverters not from the same outlander car do you think?

Tnx Arber

Posted: **Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:57 am**

There should be a picture of my resolver on one of the outlander motor threads. There are long adjustment slots, so I suspect the resolver is factory aligned to the stator, rather than being done with a software offset like the Leaf. The Leaf service manual has a procedure for programming the inverter to match a replacement motor. If anyone can get access to the Outlander manual they could confirm if there's a similar procedure.

Posted: **Sun Apr 04, 2021 11:15 am**

arber333 wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:46 am Are this native motor/inverter combo from the same car or will this work with motors and inverters not from the same outlander car do you think?

Tnx Arber

Good question, I'm not sure, I bought the parts from the same breaker, but at different times and he has many parts on the shelf so it could be possible they are from the same car.

@SciroccoEV, I've had a look at the service manual procedure for inverter and motor replacement, neither mention adjustment of the resolver.
In fact if you look at the motor disassembly page HERE it states not to even remove the cover, so maybe resolvers are factory set and 'sealed for life'
For inverter replacement the manual does not specify any calibration procedure.

Here is a video of the motor running.

Posted: **Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:26 pm**

Aot93.

Nice

fits great in that small space

Posted: **Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:48 pm**

aot93 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:13 am Edit - Spinning now! it was the resolver connection not being 100% home. Seems to ramp up and down nice and smooth.
Going to strip back my code to work out exactly what CAN messages are required, will post more details and a video later tonight.

Really good. Can you share how you translate throttle pot value to CAN telegram? Do you use any sort of coding or just AD conversion value to byte?

Tnx

Posted: **Sun Apr 04, 2021 8:07 pm**

Thanks, it's a start - getting all the batteries in is going to be fun..

For the pot to can it's just straight AD conversion
I'm using a teensy which has hardware ADC's, I use the ADC lib to simplify using them and it takes care of averaging readings etc..

I map this to my max torque - I have limited this to 5nm for testing - caution these motors spin really easy, even with the diff on and will get to high speeds quickly..

I then do a bit of a hack to split this torque value into the two bytes required. Be sure to use floats for the vars TPS, byte1 and byte2.
I always check the can message is as expected before plugging in to the inverter.

Code: Select all

                                                  //TPS is value read from throttle pot
    //TPS = TPS * -1.0;                              //Uncomment to spin in reverse
    TPS = ((TPS*10)+10000)/256;
    byte1 = floor(TPS);
    byte2 = floor((TPS - byte1)*256);
    msg.id = 0x287;
    msg.len = 8;
    msg.buf[0] = 0;
    msg.buf[1] = 0;
    msg.buf[2] = byte1;
    msg.buf[3] = byte2; 
    msg.buf[4] = 0;
    msg.buf[5] = 0;
    msg.buf[6] = 0;
    msg.buf[7] = 0;
    can1.write(msg);

This is only for testing purposes, don't try to drive a car on this!

Posted: **Mon May 10, 2021 10:19 pm**

I've made up an adaptor plate using two clutch plates.
The main explanation + more photos of it are over on the project page but thought I'd mention it here as wellas it's related to the Outlander rear motor.
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=1632 Link to project page.

Clutch plates that fit both shafts

Bolted together using a ally spacer.

In place ready for the next stage of the project.

Of course it's going to be months or more before I know it it will be successful under load.

Posted: **Tue May 11, 2021 6:31 am**

This is a silly question to get your opinion of my plan ...

I was going to cut off the end of the gearbox coupler with something overkill like an angle grinder, then press it into my coupler is there any reason that you can see this might not work? (Other than the fact I will probably need to heat the coupler and borrow/buy a press).

Posted: **Tue May 11, 2021 6:52 am**

rstevens81 wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 6:31 am This is a silly question to get your opinion of my plan ...

I was going to cut off the end of the gearbox coupler with something overkill like an angle grinder, then press it into my coupler is there any reason that you can see this might not work? (Other than the fact I will probably need to heat the coupler and borrow/buy a press).

I think your idea is the fastest. Use the grinder with the thinnest disk with care. But when done i would put the coupler in a lathe and mill and polish the end that was cut. This way it all looks more professional

.

Before pressing put the gearbox coupler end in a fridge to shrink it and heat-up your socket part to expand it before pressing gearbox side into it. This way you will get the most clearance for comfortable fit.

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