openinverter forum

Hi,
First : I'm sorry for my bad English...

I'm the owner of an old campervan (called Danette ) it powered by an OM616 engine developed 73 hp. Birth in 1988 it weighs 3 tons.

I would like to convert it that electric. So I thought to do that with a leaf's engine because the van is a front-weal drive. An other possibilitie, with more power, would be with the electric gearbox of the Lexus GS450h but it's mean I should change the rear axle and a lots of other things.

Thanks for your advice

urona wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:00 am I would like to convert it that electric. So I thought to do that with a leaf's engine because the van is a front-weal drive.

Welcome to the forum

Have a look at the Prius transaxle which will be a lot cheaper and lighter than the Leaf motor + gearbox solution. All the work that is currently being undertaken on the GS450 will eventually be replicated on the Prius hardware

urona wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:00 am Hi,
First : I'm sorry for my bad English...

I'm the owner of an old campervan (called Danette ) it powered by an OM616 engine developed 73 hp. Birth in 1988 it weighs 3 tons.

I would like to convert it that electric. So I thought to do that with a leaf's engine because the van is a front-weal drive. An other possibilitie, with more power, would be with the electric gearbox of the Lexus GS450h but it's mean I should change the rear axle and a lots of other things.

Thanks for your advice

You can use RWD...
You can get GS450h P/N 30910-30021 for rear drive
You can get GS300h P/N 30920-30030 for rear drive
You can get GS600h transmission for 4wd
https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/947393

For FWD You can get Leaf motor variants EM61, EM57
Or you can get Mitsubishi outlander rear motor and axles and adapt them to FWD P/N F1E1A-2-B5Z.
Also you can use Prius/Auris transmission, but you would have to weld the PSD to get full RPM from the case.

arber333 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:00 pm but you would have to weld the PSD to get full RPM from the case.

We expect drop in replacements (no welding) to be made available commercially in the future, also transaxles that have already had the work undertaken

Kevin Sharpe wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:22 pm

arber333 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:00 pm but you would have to weld the PSD to get full RPM from the case.

We expect drop in replacements (no welding) to be made available commercially in the future, also transaxles that have already had the work undertaken

Heh very nice!
Do you intend to publish those solutions as open source for those more mechanicaly adept?

tnx

I'd check the Prius engine and also my van I don't think there is enough space for. The MB100 has the engine between the two seats and like you can see the half-shaft are underneath of the body.

arber333 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:00 pm

urona wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:00 am Hi,
First : I'm sorry for my bad English...

I'm the owner of an old campervan (called Danette ) it powered by an OM616 engine developed 73 hp. Birth in 1988 it weighs 3 tons.

I would like to convert it that electric. So I thought to do that with a leaf's engine because the van is a front-weal drive. An other possibilitie, with more power, would be with the electric gearbox of the Lexus GS450h but it's mean I should change the rear axle and a lots of other things.

Thanks for your advice

You can use RWD...
You can get GS450h P/N 30910-30021 for rear drive
You can get GS300h P/N 30920-30030 for rear drive
You can get GS600h transmission for 4wd
https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/947393

For FWD You can get Leaf motor variants EM61, EM57
Or you can get Mitsubishi outlander rear motor and axles and adapt them to FWD P/N F1E1A-2-B5Z.
Also you can use Prius/Auris transmission, but you would have to weld the PSD to get full RPM from the case.

RWD seems to have more options but find the right rear axle to replace mine would be not the easiest way. And it's certainly an other difficulty if I want the IVA...

And sorry but I don't understand this sentence : 'you would have to weld the PSD to get full RPM from the case '

urona wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:55 pm And sorry but I don't understand this sentence : 'you would have to weld the PSD to get full RPM from the case '

Well if you use only drive motor MG2 you can get up to 100kph speeds. To go up to 120kph you need to add rotation of the MG1 and that can be done by physicaly bolting the engine input shaft to casing and weld PSD gears to the other shaft center. That then couples MG1 to MG2 and wheels.

The same can be accomplished by using appropriate large single gear with center connected to MG2 shaft.

urona wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:55 pm And sorry but I don't understand this sentence : 'you would have to weld the PSD to get full RPM from the case '

Have a look at Damien's YouTube channel

arber333 wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:19 pm Do you intend to publish those solutions as open source for those more mechanicaly adept?

Approximately one third of the attendees on our courses are professional automotive people. A significant number of those people intend to release products that make it possible for end users to undertake ' bolt on' conversions at very low cost. No doubt some will release this as open source.

Personally I've been supporting open source for ~45 years and I'm very unlikely to change now

Kevin Sharpe wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 4:06 pm

urona wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 2:55 pm And sorry but I don't understand this sentence : 'you would have to weld the PSD to get full RPM from the case '

Have a look at Damien's YouTube channel

I already watched this video (I watched all of the video about Prius transaxle after the first message thinking that THE solution) but when I saw the size I thought it will not fit where is the actual gearbox except if I cut the body of the van, photos attached orange line is the end of the engine and the arrow is the start of the gearbox.

An other question is the electric's hp and diesel/petrol's hp are the same?

Thanks for helping me

urona wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:02 pm An other question is the electric's hp and diesel/petrol's hp are the same?

Often the electric motor is two or three times the HP of the ICE. This is something to consider if you're mating an electric motor to a gearbox

urona wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 5:02 pm An other question is the electric's hp and diesel/petrol's hp are the same?

I would say 2:1, sometimes even 3:1 ration in favour of electric motor. Do not forget gas guzzler has to drive various devices that in turn support its work. So i,e, 47kW engine in reality spends a 25% its power to support structure and only 75 goes to the wheels. Whereas electric motor is just transfering torque to he shaft.

Thank you

It's meaning with a Leaf's engine EM61 (for example) I could go faster than 60 mph on flat road with back wind

An other question (sorry I try to understand) : why some electric car need high voltage? I can imagine the engine needs it but create high voltage is meaning loosing a lot of power or I'm wrong??

High voltage actually helps efficiency as it reduces current (at the same power) and thereby copper losses in motor and cables.

johu wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:10 pm High voltage actually helps efficiency as it reduces current (at the same power) and thereby copper losses in motor and cables.

Someone has a drawing ?? Because I'm lost....

urona wrote: ↑Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:34 pm Someone has a drawing ?? Because I'm lost....

Hah!

You have mechanical power on one side
Power in relation to torque
Power (kW) = Torque (N.m) x Speed (RPM) / 9.5488
T = P / 2 π n

Notice the mechanical power depends heavily on torque and speed of rotation. Max torque is difficult to increase without construction changes, but if you keep high rpm you have high Wp potential energy which transfers to usefull work in the end. There are sideffects like air drag, high rotational resistance or gyro effect...

electrical power on the other side
The power P in (W) calculation from voltage U in (V) and current I in (A):
P(W) = U(V) × I(A) = U2(V) / R(Ω) = I2(A) × R(Ω)

Also notice how power is dependent on I and U. Also note if you increase current then resistance will increase squarely for constant power. Therefore higher voltage is better it means lower ohm losses. There are other sideffects with high voltage, notably EMI, contactor welding...

Usually if you increase U you can get more RPM at the same power, therefore less ohm losses and more mechanical power. BUT up to a point when air resistance starts to play a role and again losses increase....

Someone has a drawing ?? Because I'm lost....

Power is the rate at which you use an amount of Energy.

To push a vehicle through air, and to bend the tires a little to make it roll, takes a certain amount of power. The faster you want to go, the more Power you need. The reason that you cannot ride a bicycle at highway speeds is because your body can't make enough Power to travel that fast.

So to be able to do the things you want to do with a vehicle, you need something to create the mechanical power to turn the wheels. In some places people use the term "horsepower" in other places they use the term "watts". These are different units that both measure Power. (1 hp = 746 watts).

In terms of electricity, there are multiple ways of creating the same amount of Power, since electrical power is made up the product of two things: Volts and Amps.

Volts * Amps = Watts

If you need 50,000 watts, you could get there by using 50 volts and 1,000 amps. Or, 1,000 volts and 50 amps. Or 500 volts and 100 amps. Or any combination of volts and amps that multiple to be enough Power. Electricity doesn't care. You can build a motor that would be suitable for any of these combinations.

However, there are inefficiencies in the wire that are not equal. The higher the amps, the more energy is wasted as heat. So, generally, to be efficient, we try to run at higher voltages and lower amps for the same Power target, to be slightly more efficient.

...

I don't see why people are intimidated by a little welding. Is it even reasonably possible to build an electric vehicle without using a basic welder? There aren't really drop-in solutions from head to tail yet are there? Especially not with hacked bits of other vehicles. I suppose a clip-on part that locks the input shaft could be fabricated, but everyone's going to be using a welder anyway.

Side note,

Last year we travelled with Danette to Mongolia (22,000 miles) and for most the road was just dirt road. We met a couple with drove a 207d, a garage in Oulan-Bator changed there OM616 engine, 73Hp, with a 140 HP Ssang Yong engine and if the garage had the parts it was able to transfom FWD into AWD....

Must of the spending was diesel even if it cost 48p/liter....

We like my van and we would like to travel more....

It's why I would like to convert my van to electric.

So I agree with you it would not be a problem to weld some parts and it's more what I can do but it"s also very difficult to know which parts are compatible with the vehicle. I'm always very amazed by people can answer
>You can use RWD...
>You can get GS450h P/N 30910-30021 for rear drive
>You can get GS300h P/N 30920-30030 for rear drive
>You can get GS600h transmission for 4wd
>https://www.osti.gov/servlets/purl/947393

>For FWD You can get Leaf motor variants EM61, EM57
>Or you can get Mitsubishi outlander rear motor and axles and adapt them to FWD P/N F1E1A-2-B5Z.
>Also you can use Prius/Auris transmission, but you would have to weld the PSD to get full RPM from the case.

So thank you for your help me in my project

Last year we travelled with Danette to Mongolia (22,000 miles) and for most the road was just dirt road

Wow, that's a long way even for an Aussie

You provoked a thought. In australia we have a term "Grey Nomad" - I don't know if that's a universal term or not. Wouldn't it be great to convert a camper or Bus to EV and travel as far as the battery will take you. Roll out the solar panels and spend a week charging her up. Take some electric bikes or tow a tiny EV to get around It's kinda like sailing. Land Yacht indeed

Thanks Urona

Cheers
Andrew

Hi,

I forgot to say thank you to MattsAwesomeStuff and arber333 for there answers and I will study that....and I propably be back soon with some other questions....

Thank you

A grey nomad

Thanks urona

I was checking out your camper model and i see you really do not whish to go faster than 120km/h.
I may suggest you try finding a rear mitsubishi outlander motor and driveshafts. Use it to drive your van with Johannes inverter directly.

However if you want to have a genset, than best way would be to use Prius/Auris transmission and driveshafts. Then use a Smart car motor or a low profile motorcycle motor and mount it to transmission. Maybe 2 cylinder BMW R series motor? It is simple to control, small profile and high torque motor. It is quite heavy for its size though. You would need to adapt some sort of starting algorithm so the engine wouldnt thrash out on starting.

I happy to speak with you, it's open my mind.

I didn't know Mitsubishi Outlander used an electric engine and I quite like this idea.

Gender : do you mean generator or a little diesel/petrol engine to help ?

My idea was no diesel/petrol at all, just electric power. So may be it's possible to find an AWD option

urona wrote: ↑Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:43 am I happy to speak with you, it's open my mind.

I didn't know Mitsubishi Outlander used an electric engine and I quite like this idea.

Gender : do you mean generator or a little diesel/petrol engine to help ?

My idea was no diesel/petrol at all, just electric power. So may be it's possible to find an AWD option

Well you could make it 4x4 with two motors one on front axle and one on the rear axle.

Or in a crazy idea you could keep the old engine and just add the rear motor and a battery bank somewhere. Ground would keep both wheel pairs in contact and you could use regen to fill up the battery on the road if you would want to.

I like this idea but I also thought about electric van because the actual engine is very noisy....