[Driving] Homebuilt Locost 7 - from Motorcycle engine to Leaf power!

[ianlighting]

On the publicity angle, I wonder if the Everything Electric / Fully Charged show might cover it? There’s a live show due later in the year in Canada I think, maybe you’d be able to show your car and see if theres other like minded people who want to do the same to gain more traction on the problem? Or one of the YouTube shows they do is just a weekly roundup of EV news, maybe they’d be interested in it, although could be a bit too niche for their general audience.

If not, maybe there’s some other YT channel focussed on EV racing that might run with the story?

[Zieg]

Hmm, that's an interesting idea. Looks like the show is in Vancouver, which makes sense. Would be quite the trip but not impossible. I really need to get better at getting myself out there. I do a fair bit of public speaking but never like being in the spotlight, heh.

There's a big general interest car show happening this weekend, maybe I'll see if I can get into that. I think I'd need to make a sandwich board sign with details of the car.

[lsh3rd]

There are two clubs in BC that are a 4-6 hour drive away and in theory they do allow EVs, but when I contacted them to verify I'd be allowed to run, they said they need to discuss and get back to me. I haven't heard from them since.

Personally, I'd register for an event with them and show up with the presumption that I was allowed to run. If they have failed to get back to you with an answer, I would interpret that as "I'm not prohibited from running". Obviously there is risk to approaching it this way, but compared to the cost and trouble of building the car in the first place, it seems worth a shot.

[Jacobsmess]

Showing up with the car but no intention of having g might also be worth it to pique their interests

[Zieg]

Yeah, I guess it's too late now to show up with the assumption I could run with the BC clubs, but going to the local event to get the car through tech would be nice - and a way to start a conversation. I contacted the event secretary and asked if I could do that, but so far no reply. I might be surprised if they responded at all, let alone said yes.


This video popped up in my feed the other day. Random footage of some EVs running an autocross course. Both production cars and DIY conversions by the looks of it. The video was uploaded 15 years ago!



Still no reply from the local club about tech, or the BC clubs. Probably not good news then. I'll be so sad if I have to sell this thing without ever getting to autocross it again, but after doing the math I just can't afford to get a temporary car while I wait. I guess I'll see if any of the YouTube channels or other news agencies are interested, but that's going to be hard because I really don't like public attention. That's part of the reason I wear a full face helmet with a dark visor when I drive it, lol. Beyond that, I'll keep driving it on weekends and hopefully something changes for 2026. Maybe one day they'll just up and announce that the insurance company is good with the SCCA rules and everything goes back to normal... .. . Maybe.

[Zieg]

Progress, sort of! I finally heard back from one of the clubs in BC, and it sounds like they are enthusiastic about letting me run with them, but there are some hoops to jump through first. Mainly speed, they are apparently regulated by the city to a certain top speed, which I told them was no problem and OI has a configurable limiter. Can't say that about too many other cars! So there's hope!

I also went out for a little drive since the weather was really nice, and while I was out I remembered that there was an EV public outreach program of sorts happening today. It's a trailer that they bring around, staff with 'EV ambassadors' and have cars available for people to test drive. I stopped in and I think I was very well received! Turns out one of them also used to autocross a Leaf until the ban, and another called a friend who was nearby and came down to see the car and chat. From him I found out there are some others in town who have done conversions and even a shop that I was previously unaware of. So, that was great to meet them and it was nice to be able to show off the car a bit.

Also stopped for some quick updated photos. I repainted the rear fenders and covered the leading edge with a flat black-colored paint protection film. Also 3d-printed a cover/air extractor for the hole in the side where the exhaust came out. New side mirrors that are smaller (less drag I guess?) and convex so the view is better. Added a small convex rear view mirror too. In the rear you can see the diffuser, and the door for the CCS charge port. Preliminary tests are showing at least a 1kw drop in power draw at 100kph, so that's great!

[Zieg]

Okay, so after some more discussions with various people it has come to light that the BC rulebook requires a roll cage and a fire system for any EV with a bespoke battery. If that's what it takes to finally be able to race, I'm willing to do it. I contacted the one remaining BC club to ask if everything else is sorted out on their end but no reply yet. I would hate to spend all the time and money to add the cage and fire system only to be told I still can't race. It's going to cost thousands.

I've never designed a cage before and I don't want to mess it up, so I got put in touch with a scrutineer so I can hopefully get some clarifications on the rules before I start building anything. In the mean time, I have come up with a rough preliminary design that I hope will pass muster. This follows some examples I've been shown, with some changes made for this specific rule set. Looks like the preferred way of doing it is to have the cage on the outside of the frame and the whole thing can be unbolted and removed to work on the car. There will be an attachment point at the bottom of the red tube, another at the end of the blue tube and possibly a third where the green side bars meet the red tube. The rear stays will also meet a plate that I'll have to weld to the rear frame and brace downward. The pink tube is only required on the driver side.

[jrbe]

See how many points of the cage they require first. Insuring the car can get tricky with a cage. You'll want sfi padding if you want to drive it with a cage and ever consider not wearing a helmet. Head to cage impacts are ugly.

You might be able to just do back stays and a diagonal on your roll hoop and skip the rest. Or maybe they will want door bars too.

There is a minimum gap between the door bars for each end as well as a height for the shoulder area. Just make sure those are in spec. This might force the roll hoop to terminate lower into the chassis.

Your roll hoop looks to connect in pretty high up. Be ready to explain how that's tied into a very strong area of the chassis. They may want that continuous to the ground tube with a horizontal tube of similar strength at the chassis bottom.

You may be able to skip the front section of the cage if you can prove you wouldn't be crushed in a rollover without it. This is a line drawn from the top of the roll hoop to the top of the front of the chassis that shows clearance to your helmet.

As you start getting into full cages with no roof they also usually require wrist straps so your hands don't flail outside the cage on a rollover.

For the fire system (if you care) see if they have any that are pfas free.

[Zieg]

Yeah, I already drive with a helmet all the time due to bugs, rocks etc so that's not really a concern. I have also thought about making the front half independently removable so it would still just be a roll bar on the street. However, I will have to buy a new helmet that's Snell SA rated. Mine is Snell M which is not allowed to be used with a cage.

The regs are here if anyone is interested https://solosportcanada.ca/files/2025Ap ... llCage.pdf

Trying to conform to this first and foremost, though I want it to comply with other rule sets too if possible.

You might be able to just do back stays and a diagonal on your roll hoop and skip the rest. Or maybe they will want door bars too.

Sadly they want the full cage, just because the car has a bespoke battery. The battery must also be 'in the roll structure' so I will also have to run a couple tubes under the hood. It's really not even for MY safety since the class rules don't require it on its own. It's just for the battery.

There is a minimum gap between the door bars for each end as well as a height for the shoulder area. Just make sure those are in spec. This might force the roll hoop to terminate lower into the chassis.

Is that in the SCCA rulebook? It's not in the one I linked but that one seems somewhat lacking in detail sometimes..

Your roll hoop looks to connect in pretty high up. Be ready to explain how that's tied into a very strong area of the chassis. They may want that continuous to the ground tube with a horizontal tube of similar strength at the chassis bottom.

Yeah this was my first question for the scrutineer. There is a requirement for those rear stays to be straight, and they can't be any steeper than 35 degrees to the vertical. That means I can't run them from the top of the bar to the bottom rear corner like one might expect. They have to be mounted within 8" of the top of the bar, too. The way I have them shown is pretty close to both the angle and height limits, so I don't think there's going to be any other way. I will put some plates in the top corners to catch the stays, then run separate tubes from the bottom of those plates to the bottom corners of the frame, as well as forward to the rear firewall if possible.


Nice to see so many people with knowledge of this sort of thing. It's all new to me so all this input is really helpful for navigating all this.

[jrbe]

I see this as a very different conversation with this part,

Sadly they want the full cage, just because the car has a bespoke battery. The battery must also be 'in the roll structure' so I will also have to run a couple tubes under the hood. It's really not even for MY safety since the class rules don't require it on its own. It's just for the battery.

I'd try to have the conversation that the battery should be viewed similar to a fuel cell and would require similar safety features around it.
From there you could have the conversation if a firewall is required on top of the battery that's already in a box and what size square tubing would be required for the battery weight around the battery.
Then, is your square tube chassis strong enough to meet their alternate designs specs in your linked rules while considering vehicle and battery weight,

1.5 G lateral 5.5 G fore/aft 7.5 G vertical

You could likely do a simulation of the cage with those forces acting on it with your weights. That way maybe you need to add some gussets or maybe a tube here or there to your existing chassis.
Basically I'd try to avoid the roll cage and try to focus the discussion on a safety cell around the battery.
In a crash you don't want the battery crushing you so that should be part of the consideration / simulation / design. They will want to see this too.

Sfi / fia has roll cage rules that scca and others reference. This is where you would find door bar spacing specs, number of bends allowed, angles, main hoop height, etc. if you reference this while designing the cage and decide to do a road course someday you'll have considered at least what they would want to see for a roll cage to allow you to run a road course. And realize these are rules for full race cars so it's easy to get really sucked into doing a crazy cage, just realize you're not building a full rally spec cage unless that's something you'd want to do.
It's been 14 years since I built a cage so I don't want to give you any outdated info.

Thanks for the rulebook you linked, but as you said it's light on details. This is good they didn't try to get nit picky but you'll have to make a good case for why your setup is safe.

There's a lot I didn't get to answer on the cage side of things. If you're going that way definitely check out sfi / fia rules for some deeper clarity. You might find some battery safety cell info too.

[Zieg]

I completely agree with you, but I don't get the impression there's any room for discussion this time. The gent I mentioned from BC wrote these rules and told me directly that I need the cage. It would be nice to also have it comply with SCCA cage specs, but that spec talks about tubes going forward to the firewall and other stuff that I don't know how I could accomplish. Unless my two forward tubes count since they'd effectively be landing at the same point as the firewall, just on the outside?

The other interesting thing is that the SCCA rules don't require a cage. There is a similar line, but it just says the battery must be within the 'roll structure ', which could be construed as the regular frame of the car - especially a tube frame car that doesn't have crumple zones.

[jrbe]

I completely agree with you, but I don't get the impression there's any room for discussion this time. The gent I mentioned from BC wrote these rules and told me directly that I need the cage.

I'd do the research on scca / fia / sfi rules for an ev and point to those to have a conversation about the cage for you. A typical 6 point cage won't encompass your battery so it makes 0 sense for them to require it because of your battery. I wouldn't be this blunt with the inspector though... If your battery was fully inside this area, sure, consider it.
Basically if you build a cage around you that means nothing for the battery. So it really comes back to what you or they are trying to accomplish. I'm really struggling to think on the why they say you need the cage around you but I definitely get the safety box around the battery and not having that impede into the occupant area in a crash. This is my best guess on the cage requirement but it doesn't seem fully thought through. If the battery comes into the passenger compartment in a crash and there's no protection & no firewall that could get ugly.
And it simply comes back to if your chassis is up to spec of a cage for your total vehicle weight it is the safety around the battery and around you.

I could definitely see them requiring back stays and a diagonal brace with your main hoop. Without those there's not a lot keeping it upright in a bad rollover. Maybe this is their cage requirement? I'd ask for clarity on how many points they want.

The back stays could potentially tie into plinth boxes in the back to get to their required angle if it's not too far off. Might be able to keep the angle then do a turn vertical and tie it in with some good gussets.

Firewall is used as the barrier between you and potential fire sources. So a front fuel tank, rear ice vehicle has one front, one back. But the tubes going forward to the firewall are more ankle savers in a bad crash. Idea is to be the stop point for the crumple zone and have it end near the pedal box / pedal stop point. Those tubes aren't usually required in a typical 6 point cage, at least when I was last aware. It's more if you want to avoid broken ankles on top of everything else in a bad crash. This also gets sketchy if your battery is there. But this isn't where you're competing doing auto x. Same goes for door bars, front hoop, etc. that's car to car or car to wall accidents. The cage requirement starts some dominos of safety requirements I wouldn't expect you would need for auto x.

The scca roll structure piece is exactly my point and why I think it's woth having the conversation once you have the rules understood.

[jrbe]

And most sanctioning bodies don't want you going forward past the shock tower and firewall to leave crumple zones functional. For your car there's not much for that but expect that to come up.

[Zieg]

You know what else is interesting, the 'roll cage' wording was in the draft regulations for the SCCA, I complained about it when they solicited feedback from members, and now the wording has been changed. I seriously doubt I was the only one complaining, and I was glad to see it changed. Apparently the whole 'roll structure' thing might be a judgement call now.

I really wish there was some kind of allowance for cars that meet some other rulebook, then I could probably point to the SCCA rules and be allowed as-is(?)

Okay so the second club in BC hasn't had a chance to discuss again but apparently there are mixed opinions and the fact that the other club already said no isn't helping things. So I'm going to keep designing the cage but I'll not spend more money until I have a final verdict. Bought a nice used tubing notcher today but at least that wasn't super expensive and doesn't take up much space.

Going to revisit what it might cost to buy an ICE engine and transmission that would fit in the frame. Maybe sell the battery and BMS since I wouldn't want to store that for a few years and it would help offset the cost a bit. Then I put everything else aside and drive it on petrol for a couple years until something hopefully changes? Or, if it's cheaper, do all the above but instead of buying an ICE drivetrain I just get a cheap formula car with an aim to resell it later?

[jrbe]

Good idea, are there any scca inspectors up near you? If you were scca inspected / passed that would likely be easier to have a conversation about their rules.

They write the rules so there's some room on their side to say no. The roll structure piece makes me think they may have hesitations with yours. Does this group run both autocross and track events? That might be part of the confusion. Last I was aware there were no roll cage rules for stock vehicles for autocross. But if you showed up in an MG convertible or something that is known to go wheels up I could see them wanting a roll bar with back stays and a diagonal bar in the main hoop.

The video I saw of you racing (at what looked like an airfield) looked pretty quick. Maybe they're considering this event and it's speeds as using road course rules / requirements. I think your car was gas at the time and I think I remember you just having the roll hoop then. But I imagine other vehicles didn't have roll bar / cage requirements at that event.

It's odd they are pushing you towards a full cage because of the battery. But maybe the inspector didn't like something about your roll bar and wants that beefed up separately. You need clarity on what they want and what they don't think is safe.

My best guess is they might be overreacting because of their unknowns with EVs and might want something with your roll bar fixed.

[Zieg]

I think the inspector I've been put in touch with should be able to comment on SCCA stuff too, but he hasn't responded yet.

I know speed can't be a concern because they told me they were limited to 100kph at their event which is a bit unusual. I told them I can configure a speed limiter via OI so it's not an issue.

You're right though, the GCR rules apply to all disciplines of racing. Usually they'll specify things like "for autocross you need this and for road racing you need that"... But the EV section doesn't differentiate in its roll cage rules. So yeah, I need a full roll cage to go 100kph alone in a parking lot. Heh.

[jrbe]

You're right though, the GCR rules apply to all disciplines of racing. Usually they'll specify things like "for autocross you need this and for road racing you need that"... But the EV section doesn't differentiate in its roll cage rules. So yeah, I need a full roll cage to go 100kph alone in a parking lot. Heh.

The SCCA SCREV rules keep repeating if a cage is required. I haven't seen where the cage required / not required wording is specifically in the ev specific section of the rules. My assumption is still that the inspectors cage requirement is because your car has no roof, but not positive.

If the no roof is driving the cage, then it compounds further to the battery in the rules,

Vehicles with roll cages installed should add additional bracing to protect the RESS/Battery Pack from side or rear impact. Brace(s) should be equal diameter and thickness as the main hoop.

Does your chassis meet this where the battery is located? If so the battery safety should be covered cage wise. There's still the battery impact protections and upside down mounting pieces.

[Zieg]

No, it shouldn't have anything to do with the roof. I believe what would drive the cage requirement is the class regulations. So for instance, any car used for wheel to wheel racing must have a cage, so now all the cage-dependant rules from the SCREV also apply.

I think I could pretty easily argue that the tube chassis of the car serves as the impact protection. But if I had to add a couple extra cage-sized tubes just around the battery, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Even the fire suppression system, fine - whatever. I'm willing to buy one for whatever good it might do. I guess if the battery catches fire and that causes the paint to catch fire, then the fire system could give me an extra few seconds to get out of the car. Or if there's some kind of electrical fire from the 12v system, the fire system could put it out before it reaches the HV battery.

I.. just sent a message to someone selling a cheap formula car. I can't bring myself to sell this car, but what I might do is sell the battery, enclosure, and BMS. That should help offset the cost of the formula car (a bit, anyway), and in a couple years when regulations hopefully catch up, I can sell the formula car, re-buy the battery and be ready to rock.

[jrbe]

For wheel to wheel, no question, you'd need a cage. I meant from the research I did I couldn't find where it said you needed a cage.
Do you know where the specific wording is or did the inspector quote it? Or is it that the SCREV doesn't call out autocross?

The rules seem pretty poorly worded for EVs currently.

I really hope you find a way to work through this. The ice route is good to keep you in competition, it's just disappointing.

[Zieg]

Oh, sorry, I should have linked that part too. There's an appendix right at the end of the CACC general competition regulations that resembles the SCREV, except that some of the wording seems to match the draft SCREV rather than the version that was actually adopted.

https://www.caccautosport.org/wp-conten ... ations.pdf

22.2.5.1 Custom Battery Packs, or OEM battery packs that have been modified in any way, may
only be installed in vehicles with a roll cage. The complete battery pack must be inside
the roll structure. Battery packs must utilize commercially available cells/modules. It is
prohibited to modify individual cells except for the tab connections to enable
connection. Individual cells/modules must be securely fastened together and mounted
in a protective enclosure. The enclosure mounting system must be able to contain the
battery pack in a vehicle crash, and the cell/module retaining system should prevent
shorting of any High Voltage components

Interestingly, the SCREV has extra requirements for the thickness of the battery enclosure and a few other things which are absent from these rules.

Thanks, I hope I can find a way through this too. Sitting on the car and getting an ICE is definitely not ideal but in my weaker moments I feel desperate enough that I might do it. I'm glad the CACC as a whole is pushing for a path forward to race EVs in Canada, too bad the club in Kelowna still doesn't want to play.

[jrbe]

Thanks for that rule snip, it helps a lot. It says cage but doesn't really specify the number of points required. They only show 6 point with the ankle tubes though so I assume they want 6 point.

Would it be possible to fit a smaller battery that's unmodified instead? Maybe a hybrid bmw battery?

[Zieg]

Hmm, that's an interesting idea! It would have to be one that can be controlled externally for contactors and BMS. I think the BMW pack plus a zombie should be able to handle that. Physical dimensions would be the other challenge. I think the box I built is roughly 17" x 24". I guess I might be able to remove the passenger seat and mount it there, although that would mess up the weight distribution and make me slightly less comfortable being so close to the battery. Hmm... Or try and split the difference - cut out the passenger side fire wall and let the battery stick into the footwell. I'll put some thought into that, thank you!

[jrbe]

The BMW hybrid pack is about 10.5" / 271mm tall so you could consider mounting it under your knees / legs. Should work out ok for balance and lower rotational inertia. I can't remember if the contactors / control box was figured out already but I thought it was.
There may be some other options for small packs that could work out well too.

[Zieg]

Alright, I'm planning a trip to the USA. I know I said I was nervous about crossing the border but after some more thought and research it seems like regular old Canadians aren't having problems. I contacted the organizers and they were perfectly fine with the car as it sits, since it meets the SCCA rules*. They didn't know about the supplemental EV rules since all their EV entrants have been stock production cars, so they said they might have me give a little briefing on EV safety so they can learn. Awesome! From watching some videos, it seems like they have some very interesting course layouts too, since they have a large area to run on.

*After some extra digging and discussions it looks like I have to run the car in the A-mod class, which is the fastest available. Cars get classed according to performance and modifications so that in theory, the same person could drive a well-prepped car from any class and after the class multiplier (PAX) is applied, the lap time would come out the same. This is how you have civics with good drivers beating Ferraris with bad drivers. The funny thing is it appears as though the thing that takes me from E-mod to A-mod is the fact that the motor is in the back of the car instead of the front like a real Lotus 7. lol. I told them I really didn't care about that at this point so A-mod is fine. There's one tiny snag that my seat belt doesn't comply with the stricter A-mod harness requirements, but $400 and an hour of my time should solve that.

Now I need to do a bunch of prep work! My hauler needs an oil change and a once-over before making the journey, and I have to go get some supplies. I'm planning to stay in an RV campground and sleep in the back. I am NOT a camping person so this will be.. interesting. The camp site I want to book has 120V so I can power a space heater, and it has a restroom/shower facility. I'm planning to bring a hot plate so I can cook, a cooler with food, water for drinking/washing, and a hammock. I have never slept in a hammock before but I believe there will be room to string it up in the back, over the car. Backup plan would be to sleep in the front of the truck or in the passenger seat of the car itself, since the seats are actually pretty comfortable. If I need to recline a bit I suppose I could jack up the front of the car. LOL.

So yeah, lots of unknowns here and I'm going to be outside my comfort zone in several ways, but hopefully it all works out. I also couldn't help noticing there are more CCS stations within 20 miles of this place than there are in my entire city. Was worried I'd have to L1 charge over night at the camp site, but I guess I don't have to worry about that now!

Did a test run with the new ramps I made, worked like a charm!

[johu]

Great work breaking new grounds!

Bring a chair, very important camping item