Prius Gen3 Inverter Hacking

[arber333]

Way to go! I totaly missed the small loom. I have a 90A 13V lamps drain i used to test Volt DCDC. I will try with it definitely and will log behaviour.
So you say if i change voltage on those wires to say 9V to blue wire it should change output? Or does it require certain duty? Did you try?

Hah! When i come home there will be a 12V party .

[Jack Bauer]

It requires a duty. If you look at the circuit diagram on the github for the logic board it should make sense. It defaults to 14v with no control signal.

also see here for gen 2 : http://nicjam.es/how-to-turn-on-the-gen ... converter/

[Jack Bauer]

Oh yeah one other thing you will need coolant flow if you intend to run it on load. The gen3 has virtually no thermal mass so overheats very fast.

[arber333]

Oh yeah one other thing you will need coolant flow if you intend to run it on load. The gen3 has virtually no thermal mass so overheats very fast.

It works! I got 80A from 14Vdc and lights are bright!
I did put some water through so the mass was higher.

EDIT: I put everything on the line and connected 380Vdc to main bus. No magic smoke escaped!
Well then no matter how i tried when i connected 12V to start the converter it wouldnt start from 380Vdc. It seems it has overvoltage protection and this keeps the electronics from operating. Smart those toyota engineers.
I cant use this inverter as the motor drive. It wouldn work.
This meens i must use this inverter as a basis for my charge pump. It has everything i required.
- 1x 3phase rectifier of 40kW
- 1x halfh bridge module with inductor
- 1x Aux DCDC converter to charge Lead acid battery and supply that 14V for pumps and other stuff
- It is nice and compact.

EDIT2: Another quick test. I applied 118Vdc to inverter and i got 13,8Vdc on aux battery. So i would expect DCDC system works even lower but not with complete efficiency. That is really great.

EDIT3: Yet again selected some parts of my Ampera battery and produced 308Vdc to the main DC link. And the system responded! Hurah! I got good 14V from the Aux converter. I assume there is some limit where system refuses the high voltage. But again Probably engineers designed the system to work with either Toyota or Lexus cars. Thank you...

EDIT 4: Yes i even tried with 94Vdc. Like the Americans are saying it was partial success. Inverter accepted voltage and Aux converter started. But it made a measly 12.4Vdc and it couldnt supply 80A load from that.

EDIT 5: Again i tried to go over the top and tried with various voltages from my Ampera battery. Aux converter stopped after 315Vdc! So if you want to use this as is you have to consider using maximal voltage of 315Vdc for your system.

TNX

[Jack Bauer]

Great testing Arber. Yes the Toyota stuff is totally bullet proof. You just can't kill it. Even the inverters laugh if you try and cross commutate, run the voltage too high, current too high etc.

[arber333]

Great testing Arber. Yes the Toyota stuff is totally bullet proof. You just can't kill it. Even the inverters laugh if you try and cross commutate, run the voltage too high, current too high etc.

Maybe today i will try to find what voltage i can get it to work with before it shuts down due to OVLO. I am guessing 340Vdc will still work.

[Bigpie]

Arber, when you say 3phase rectifier of 40kW, is that using the diodes in the IGBTs to rectify by connecting the phases to the MG 1/2?

[arber333]

Arber, when you say 3phase rectifier of 40kW, is that using the diodes in the IGBTs to rectify by connecting the phases to the MG 1/2?

Yes that is exactly what i am thinking of doing. With Volt inverter there is really nothing between 3phase block and main DClink. But here there is one cap and push pul transistor set with inductor. If i run PWM at 12kHz i think i should get 20kW out of it. I can try it at 16kHz, but i dont know the transistor data.
My own 10kW charger is larger than Prius inverter now! If i would just use the DCDC conversion i think i already won.
It is just that pesky 310Vdc limit that is bugging me...

[MattsAwesomeStuff]

Hey guys,

A lot of this stuff is over my head at the moment. I'm more solder monkey than EE.

I'm looking at getting all the pieces together for a summer build and wondering if this Prius inverter would be suitable for me, if it's developed enough to start using (or should I wait for future development?) and what the odds are of an amateur figuring this stuff out. I'm doing a super, super budget build.

Some basics:
- 2000lb Opel GT donor car (should have in a few weeks) ($200 and probably $1000 in gas to go get it).
- 2-4000 recycled 18650s from tool packs (have now, capacity tested). Have not configured them into any particular S/P configuration yet. (Free).
- Maybe have a motor from a 3ph forklift ( http://en.evs-inmotion.com/products/tsptsw/ - click on specs, it's the 180-6-200). Or rather, I do have one, I am only a maybe on if it is suitable or can be suitably overdriven. Can it handle higher RPM? Can it handle higher current (with air cooling?)? Can it handle higher voltage? Could use some advice on whether I should just shop for a better motor. For scale, it weighs 2-300lbs. (This one was free).
- Other accessories (vac pump, relays, etc), also free, not relevant though.

The inverter is the hardest and most expensive part of the build where there's not a lot of corners to cut. And I understand it the least. I'd basically just be taking someone's instructions and advice verbatim.

So, what I'm wondering is if there is a thing, that I can buy, that I can probably manage to put together myself, that can get me a working inverter if I start with a Prius Gen 3. Or whether now is not yet a good time to depend on that for a summer build this year? And, whether that motor isn't a good match for this or any open inverter and I should be looking for something different while I'm at it.

Sorry if somewhat off-topic. I don't want this to be a troubleshooting or build thread, try to restrict the conversation to the suitability/status of the Prius project here.

[Jack Bauer]

Current status is I have prototype boards built and basic tests done. I seem to be the only person doing this type of stuff so I guess progress is a little slow. All design files are on github and I have bare and completed boards for sale in the webshop.

[Aquinax]

Hi everyone! I finished rerouting due to the specifics of my particular instance, I hope it will work as intended...
Now how to generate gerber correctly? I got into this difficult thing as a rookie, understanding only superficial processes.



here you can see the problem


one more of infinite steps is passed, I feel further.

can anyone instruct?

[arber333]

Hi

You will not believe what i found...
While dissecting Prius inverter i found it uses Tamagawa resolver chips. I looked them up and they are AU6802N1.
https://www.datasheets.com/datasheet/au ... i-62718777

Check pin arrangement. It has capability to output ABZ encoder as well as UVW commutation pulses. You can even set number of motor poles etc...
This should mean if you use this on your board there is no halfh measures. You would get full resolver signal converted to 6step comutation for lebowski brain or ABZ signal for use with Johannes brain on the same chip. Talk about salvage.
I am thinking of using them for my board. Should mean that every BLDC motor with resolver is fair game now.

[Jack Bauer]

Just a word of warning. Most R2D converters need to be configured before they will output encoder emulation signals.

[Jack Bauer]

Here is a tutorial on producing gerbers with designspark :
https://designspark.zendesk.com/hc/en-u ... ber-files-

[Aquinax]

Here is a tutorial on producing gerbers with designspark :
https://designspark.zendesk.com/hc/en-u ... ber-files-

thanks, I have already dealt with this board outline problem.

Next I need to order the fabrication, even better assembly, but it is expensive for me. Budget is not rubbery, but I'm not smiling to solder

by the way, JLSpcb telling me that board is consist 4 layers, their count that powerplanes is the layers or what?

[sonachan1]

by the way, JLSpcb telling me that board is consist 4 layers, their count that powerplanes is the layers or what?

Yes, it Is a 4 layer board. You may need to make sure they get the inversion correct on the power planes.

[Aquinax]

You may need to make sure they get the inversion correct on the power planes.

what is this means?

in truth, I don’t really want to solder myself.
I can not imagine where to order the components, dazzling in eyes and my hands are shaking.
and after that i look like this


where to order the assembly is cheaper with delivery to our elephantass country?
I'm weak in finding where to upload the BOM?

[Jack Bauer]

Some progress today on the inverter and transaxle :

[johnspark]

Jack, I understand from the video, that part you showed is called a shim according to the manual, it goes underneath the sprocket driven and counter drive gear (pg 22-22 of the Toyota Repair Manual 2004. Volume 2-3.0).

[Jack Bauer]

ahhh. Thanks. I would have been trying to put it in the wrong place yet again:)

[Kevin Sharpe]

I'm weak in finding where to upload the BOM?

All information that is available is on Damien's GitHub. Have you created a BOM that you want uploaded to his GitHub, or do you need a BOM that you wish to download?

If you tell us where you are based then we might be able to find a local engineer that can help you

[Aquinax]

All information that is available is on Damien's GitHub. Have you created a BOM that you want uploaded to his GitHub, or do you need a BOM that you wish to download?

If you tell us where you are based then we might be able to find a local engineer that can help you

I need components to order or assembly order. I was telling about UPload to store

[johnspark]

Just added a scan of the page out of the Prius repair manual...

[Kevin Sharpe]

I need components to order or assembly order. I was telling about UPload to store

I think you'll need to wait until Damien releases a stable version of the design and someone has time to create the BOM. It's very early in the design process and things are bound to change.

If you're desperate presumably your PCB design tool can produce a simple BOM?

[Aquinax]

I need components to order or assembly order. I was telling about UPload to store

I think you'll need to wait until Damien releases a stable version of the design and someone has time to create the BOM. It's very early in the design process and things are bound to change.

If you're desperate presumably your PCB design tool can produce a simple BOM?

If this first version isn't stable?
I spent a lot of time looking for a twister for mg2 or for mg1 at least. I even wanted to buy a 20 kW 144v controller, which allowed the budget. until I came across a comrade abricosww. I learned from him about Damien. now my hands just itch, since this summer I was planning to test the lab'on' wheels with dangling cords