Outlander rear motor and inverter

[arber333]

I have Mitsubishi Outlander rear motor and front inverter in my workshop with resr inverter incoming.
I have 9kW VW Passat battery for testing here.
Also i have my CAN tools, EVTV CAN DUE and Canalyst II so i can talk to my devices.
I would like to get to testing, but i dont have Outlander anywhere i know...

I see motor PIDs for torque are:
288_FrTrq,Front Trq,220288,(A*256+B-10000)/10,-200,200,Nm,
289_RrTrq,Rear Trq,220289,(A*256+B-10000)/10,-200,200,Nm,
28B_GenTrq,Gen Trq,22028B,(A*256+B-10000)/10,-200,200,Nm,
But that is only reporting no? Does someone have command ID for torque?

@Dilbert can you tell what mesages you use to get the front and rear inverter running?

tnx

A

[tom91]

You checked the link i provided?

Code: Select all

287_FrTrqReq,Front Trq Req,220287,(A*256+B-10000)/10,-200,200,Nm,
287_RrTrqReq,Rear Trq Req,220287,(C*256+D-10000)/10,-200,200,Nm,
287_GenTrqReq,Generator Trq Req,220287,(E*256+F-10000)/10,-200,200,Nm,
287_G,287_G,220287,G,0,255,Cnt,
287_H,287_H,220287,G,0,255,Cnt,

I hope to have more info to share soon, but yes it spins real easy.

Main issues are:
-all battery limits are to be done by external control
-Torque is direction relevant, so going forward, positive is motoring and negative is regen. In reverse rotation other way around.
-Direction is not selected but done via reversing torque sign, see above.

Working together with Phil, Pemtek here on the forum, to get a VCU designed and programmed to make control of these motors easier. Also will be integrating DCDC Charger and BMS functions.

Be careful, these motors have VERY low inertia any torque command (even 1Nm) will make them spin up and climb to max RPM (13K rpm for the front motor). Currently the full command sets are still t be discovered so we can have a level of safety and knowledge before fully disclosing all info.

[arber333]

Really nice thanks

By low inertia means low impedance wiring?
I see from rear motor it uses 10 pole resolver ergo it seems to be 10 pole PMSM motor. Yes?

I will try to get it spinning with Volt inverter and Johannes brain first. Later maybe with Lebowski sensorless brain.
I can see that replacing resolver with RLS commutation encoder would be really easy. The same way in Leaf EM61 motor.
So Outlander uses torque control so RPM is not limited by anything. Maybe just the level of FW in inverter.
I am not sure what the motor will do at 360Vdc with torque control... thanks for the warning.

I gather in johannes inverter i can set max rpm and it will not pass this. But in manual mode i will have my hand on the EMGCY button.

Do you think i can brake it through rear shafts anyhow....? Maybe use another motor with 6bridge with direct output on HV battery?

[tom91]

Just build it into a car, the rear motor and inverter will work.

I do not have any specs on the motor. But why spin it with different inverters? The OE inverter works fine to do this unless you want to push the limits of the motor.

As far as i am aware there is a speed limit in the firmware, however a motor spinning at 9-13K rpm is not really a safe thing to have around.

[arber333]

Just build it into a car, the rear motor and inverter will work.

I do not have any specs on the motor. But why spin it with different inverters? The OE inverter works fine to do this unless you want to push the limits of the motor.

As far as i am aware there is a speed limit in the firmware, however a motor spinning at 9-13K rpm is not really a safe thing to have around.

Well i need a motor to develop my dual output Volt inverter so i need some PM motor coupled to a load. It just happened i got this combo cheap. No other reason.
But like you say if the combo will work well together it will definitely go into a small car.

tnx

[arber333]

First i went on and measured the motor.

I measure 50mH one the phases. I gather Lebowski will work with 230uH per phase
Resistance is 0.38Ohm from U to V, so cca 180mOhm per phase, but i found out you must multiply this dependent on inverter frequency. I use 3x the value at 6kHz so 188mOhm per phase. This is for someone who wants to use it with Lebowski brain. I need to confirm this stll. Stay tuned.

[arber333]

I got this resolver setup in my harness

R12 - 35,5R Black, White
S13 - 86,4R Green, Red
S24 - 78,5R Yelow, Blue

[arber333]

Johannes, could you put everything Outlander-ish under the same roof?
Since it is spread all over forum... Can you create one cover "Mitsubishi Outlander" title in "Hardware" section and put all of it inside...

viewtopic.php?f=9&t=682
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=325
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=628

tnx

[Ruudi S]

Where have you seen these rear motors for 400€? I see on ebay for 2000€ and the same for inverter. It's nice compact unit.

• But is it designed to be the main motor of a car?

• Will it last in continous use?

• Is it better compared to the i-MiEV motor?

I can see that it makes the car go at higher speed, has more torque and power. Also its placed behind the halfshafts. On i-MiEV motor is in front of the halfshafts. It doesn't have parking lock mechanism like I-MiEV motor has.

[arber333]

Hi

Anyone figured out Outlander rear motor pole count?
I am guessing at 10poles, but it keeps jumping when i try to run it.
Resolver travel is also not smooth enough regarding previous Remy HVH250 motor.

[pemtek]

I have a motor, inverter, charger and battery from an outlander installed in a Honda civic. The charger and motor only need 4 can commands between them in total to work. I have shared the information with a couple of people on here already. But I will be in a position to report actually driving a car running the outlander parts in the next few days if I can get a few hours on it away from jobs around my home..

I actually have a stack of chargers, 7 motors and inverters. I also have a front transmission which has 2 motors and the front inverter controls both motors easily with basically the same commands that drive the rear. It looks entirely possible to use both motors in parallel for a really good power output for the money.

Phil

[Ruudi S]

I remember when I was investigating i-MiEV electrical system, there was writen in service manual that EV-ECU wich controls the motor inverter sends somekind of unique VIN or other codes to the inverter to allow the motor to start.
Seems like it is not true for Outlander inverter (wich has the same manufacturer) if you just send it CAN codes and it works.

[pemtek]

The rear inverter is programmed with the vehicle vin and it is transmitted continually. The phev ecu will not drive the inverters if the vin from the rear inverter does not match so it is partly correct.

Phil

[tom91]

got all motors spinning with OEM inverters



There are so many quirks to controlling these, it will take quite some work getting a usable control software written.

Hope to get a rear motor fitted to a test vehicle soon.

[pemtek]

Seems to behave pretty well using a full throttle map I mocked up. I hope to be testing it under load in the civic this week. I just know I will be wishing I fitted the outlander front transmission with both motors when I drive it..

Phil

[arber333]

Well i got one Mitsubishi connector for rear inverter here and i researched the *** out of it.
It is marked Hirose GT18WB-14DS-HU A and it has a single key on each side.

Resolver connector is obviously GT18WB-14DS-HU also 14pin connector but with 2 keys on each side. Both sides of rear motor resolver harness have the same connector oriented in the same way, so it is no problem how to connect it.

Digikey can get it for you
https://www.digikey.com/products/en?key ... T18WB-14DS
But crimps are to be had in 10000 quantity...

https://www.hirose.com/product/document ... =D49386_en

[bobby_come_lately]

got all motors spinning with OEM inverters



There are so many quirks to controlling these, it will take quite some work getting a usable control software written.

Hope to get a rear motor fitted to a test vehicle soon.

Are these the Meiden motors @tom91? In a moment of madness I took the plunge and bought one of the 70kw ones that Second Life EV was selling on eBay. My *hope* (and it is that more than expectation at the moment) is to get one of these running with the Prius Gen 3 inverter and the BMW battery packs that Damian is playing with.

[jnsaff]

[tom91]

Jup thats the new project at work, will be using a VCU I am designing and coding.

[Shaf1926]

The rear inverter is programmed with the vehicle vin and it is transmitted continually. The phev ecu will not drive the inverters if the vin from the rear inverter does not match so it is partly correct.

Phil

Hi, I'm following this thread with interest as I have a used rear motor and inverter that I want to use for a project.

If I read the above correctly, if on an outlawed vehicle someone was to swap the rear inverter with one from a different car then the main vehicle vcu would refuse to run it as the him the inverter transmits would not match.
But the inverter itself doesn't do a similar check. So the rear inverter will run so long as it gets the torque request commands over CAN.

Is that right?
Makes it sound like a fairly simple set up to use.

[Shaf1926]

Jup thats the new project at work, will be using a VCU I am designing and coding.

I'd be very interested to find out more about what you are doing on the vcu side.

I used to do tcu and vcu as for a major car manufacturer. I'm now working on a project for myself but need to get hold of suitable hardware.

[arber333]

I would also like to know about the progress of this zombie.
If this VCU is successfull in driving the motor by its natural inverter, then we add charger and DCDC and some peripherals and we are are done.
Trully done!

[ScottS]

Hello All,

Have just got a rear motor and inverter. Came with the resolver cable and a bunch of HV cables so that's handy.

Looks like the Vehicle connector is out of stock on digikey and apparently obsolete according to mouser... Anyone found any spares (or happen to have any lying around?)

Will get a test setup going and join in the Reverse Engineering fun.

[arber333]

I have the same problem. I am thinking of cutting the harness off and extending wires out of inverter through my own grommet. It's only like 6 wires. Then I would put a standard sealed connector on them.
Wouldn't look as nice as original, but it would be functional.

[ScottS]

Has anyone had luck with 3D printing connectors? Not sure if the resolution and accuracy will be high enough, but I'll give it a go. Would be useful if anyone can identify an alternative female pin which fits the male pins, I don't have many lying around.

Also, split my motor off today to try and measure the splines. Looks like it's 20mm with 18 splines. Then went on a hunt for a clutch disk similar. Seems the Suzuki Jimny SJ410 (1.0 litre) has that size. Don't suppose anyone here would happen to have one of those to hand?

I've also got some fairly good measurements of a drive which I'll use to start drawing up an adaptor. This is going on a VW beetle gearbox.