Ford Model T 1911 conversion

[john]

Hi, I have a beautiful vintage car, she is lovely in all aspects except for her ugly emissions, and so I want to convert her to EV, she is over 100 years old and with wooden wheels so speed is not top of list, nor is efficiency and nor is range, maybe most 30 miles, I have looked at most systems but many far too expensive for my needs, I cannot understand why there is little economical choice of motor and control, all I really want, is a 8kw to 10kw motor, DC, preferably brushed, 3 gear switch ie 2 or 3 or all 5 batteries, direct drive or belt/chain, through the existing gear box which is 85% eff in forward, I know this sounds clunky, but she is already clunky so no difference there then, need the existing gear box, to retain as much as possible, the original features but also it contains the, 6 volt dynamo and the foot brake, any offers of help would be very much appreciated, I would show a picture, but I am new on here and don't quite understand how to, maybe my age, I am 78

[joromy]

Very nice project you have there.
Don't have any suggestions for you, but there is some conversions out there:

[Isaac96]

Hi John,
Welcome to the forum! An electric Model T sounds amazing.
Do you have a budget for your project? It's just helpful to know what your financial range is when considering motors, controllers and batteries.

You could certainly use the classic forklift DC motor; they are sometimes available from junkyards for good prices (say $200). That should provide plenty of power.

As you aren't interested in high speed or long range, a low voltage system should be great (and is also much safer and easier to work with). 72 to 144 volts is all you need for low power requirements. Are you considering the use of lead acid or lithium batteries? Lead acid is easier to deal with but much bigger and heavier; lithium is more dense and more powerful but usually more expensive and you need a BMS to monitor the battery cells.

A switch based controller, which it seems you want to use, is vintage technology and pretty awful. Also it will likely break as fast as it can. You can get a Prius inverter for $100 and connect a simple PWM drive circuit (which I believe Damien Maguire, aka Jack Bauer has built) and you will have a cheaper, better, and much more reliable controller. I bet this would be cheaper than buying switches.

In any event I would love to see an electric Model T. You can attach pictures in the 'attachments' menu below the post page.

-Isaac

[john]

Hi Isaac, thank you for your welcome, I have looked many times for a forklift motor and with no success, I live in the UK and there does not appear to be the same market over here, the switching that I mentioned is fairly modern in the boating industry, the switch purely connects either 2 or 3 or all five batteries together and it is actually referred to as 3 gears, very cheap!, I will look into the Prius inverter and PWM options, and thanks for that, and finally, because all of the original engine and components will be carefully removed and stored, maybe for a future owner, I consider this EV conversion as temporary and so yes, I want cheap as chips, lead acid batteries, cheapest control and cheapest but reliable motor, just so that whilst in my ownership, she does not spill any further fumes, any further thoughts very welcome and thanks

[john]

here is my Ford model T

[john]

Hi Isaac again, yes Prius inverters are readily available in the UK, typically £100, no probs, PWM's are also readily available, my biggest problem is that of obtaining the motor and until I achieve that, all the other stuff is on hold, second hand suitable motors, ie 8 to 10 kw are simply not available in the UK, but I will keep on looking, and thanks for your suggestions

[Jack Bauer]

Firstly let me say amazing car and thanks for joining the forum. Regards finding a forklift motor let me suggest what has worked for me with great success in the past. First, use a search engine or local directory and find all forklift related business within a distance you are willing to travel. Most will have an email address of some sort. Make up a general email asking for a traction motor for a personal project, say you are willing to pay for the motor and cover any labor cost they may incur on removal and can collect straight away. Send that out to as many as you can find. One in ten will respond and one in that ten will have what you need.

If that fails, do the same but turn up with cash in hand and ask to speak to the maintenance guy. This is how I got my first motor back 11 years ago. Went to a big shiny forklift place in Dublin, went in to reception and asked to speak to the maintenance manager. Guy comes out from the office and I explain what I need. I can see he's about to tell me to get lost so I pull out a roll of 50 euros notes and started peeling them off. "Just tell me when to stop" I said. 500 euros later I had not one but three motors and a new best friend.

[MattsAwesomeStuff]

I've actually heard a lot lately that people have trouble in the UK finding any used forklift motors. Especially DC motors.

I somewhat had trouble believing it, but when I've given that advice lots of people have said they followed that and were told no one uses them and haven't used them in 20 years.

[johu]

I really don't mean to be joking but isn't 10kW reaching down into the RC plane region?
Like this https://www.scorpionsystem.com/catalog/ ... 540_400_8/ but China version and cheap brushless controller

[Bigpie]

http://www.forktruckbreakers.com/about.html this place in Chesterfield has previously said £350 for one.

[Isaac96]

I really don't mean to be joking but isn't 10kW reaching down into the RC plane region?
Like this https://www.scorpionsystem.com/catalog/ ... 540_400_8/ but China version and cheap brushless controller

Some of the really crazy Ebike crowd use motors like that. That one will hit 24000rpm at 60v so you'd need quite the reduction gearing. In general the RC type motors spin far too fast to be very useful for traction, and certainly can't output the rated watts for very long (especially with limited airflow, i.e. 30mph instead of 100).
Also most are sensorless, so rather useless at startup (you can add sensors but that's a pain too). So generally not much good on anything much larger than a bike or skateboard.

-Isaac

[john]

Firstly let me say amazing car and thanks for joining the forum. Regards finding a forklift motor let me suggest what has worked for me with great success in the past. First, use a search engine or local directory and find all forklift related business within a distance you are willing to travel. Most will have an email address of some sort. Make up a general email asking for a traction motor for a personal project, say you are willing to pay for the motor and cover any labor cost they may incur on removal and can collect straight away. Send that out to as many as you can find. One in ten will respond and one in that ten will have what you need.

If that fails, do the same but turn up with cash in hand and ask to speak to the maintenance guy. This is how I got my first motor back 11 years ago. Went to a big shiny forklift place in Dublin, went in to reception and asked to speak to the maintenance manager. Guy comes out from the office and I explain what I need. I can see he's about to tell me to get lost so I pull out a roll of 50 euros notes and started peeling them off. "Just tell me when to stop" I said. 500 euros later I had not one but three motors and a new best friend.

Hi Jack, and thanks for your suggestions, have you any idea as to the power of these motors, because, even when I do find one listed, it is typically only 3 or 4 kw, which of course is of no use, secondly, I understand that you are an expert on designing a PWM, any chance of advise on this

[john]

Firstly let me say amazing car and thanks for joining the forum. Regards finding a forklift motor let me suggest what has worked for me with great success in the past. First, use a search engine or local directory and find all forklift related business within a distance you are willing to travel. Most will have an email address of some sort. Make up a general email asking for a traction motor for a personal project, say you are willing to pay for the motor and cover any labor cost they may incur on removal and can collect straight away. Send that out to as many as you can find. One in ten will respond and one in that ten will have what you need.

If that fails, do the same but turn up with cash in hand and ask to speak to the maintenance guy. This is how I got my first motor back 11 years ago. Went to a big shiny forklift place in Dublin, went in to reception and asked to speak to the maintenance manager. Guy comes out from the office and I explain what I need. I can see he's about to tell me to get lost so I pull out a roll of 50 euros notes and started peeling them off. "Just tell me when to stop" I said. 500 euros later I had not one but three motors and a new best friend.

it was Isaac who mentioned your knowledge of PWM

[john]

I really don't mean to be joking but isn't 10kW reaching down into the RC plane region?
Like this https://www.scorpionsystem.com/catalog/ ... 540_400_8/ but China version and cheap brushless controller

yes it is in terms of power, but the extremely high revs and short life would render these as pretty useless, but thanks

[johu]

Ok, that makes sense.
Next up: the complete Twizy drive train. Zero EV will have one left over soon. Rated 15kW at 48V - or was it 72V?

[john]

Ok, that makes sense.
Next up: the complete Twizy drive train. Zero EV will have one left over soon. Rated 15kW at 48V - or was it 72V?

that sounds interesting, would only need motor though, please keep me informed, thanks

[johu]

Maybe tom91 will chime in, he works for Zero EV. They are located in Bristol.

[tom91]

Ok, that makes sense.
Next up: the complete Twizy drive train. Zero EV will have one left over soon. Rated 15kW at 48V - or was it 72V?

No this is not left over, it is being 'Upcycled'.

[tom91]

Depending on your budget you can reach out to people like https://www.voltsport.co.uk/ if you want a 'plug and play' motor inverter setup for various low voltages.

Something like this would do i believe: https://www.voltsport.co.uk/kits/kits-d ... t-10kW-48V

Depending on what your level of knowledge is on electronics / automotive wiring going with a proven solution from one source would be the safest / most effective solution (a lot less learning everything involved).

[john]

Well, I have jump in, now lets see if I can swim ?, various suggestions have come forward, a very helpful forum and I thank you all, but I have just purchased a used Agni motor 119, 8.5 kw up to 12.2 kw, power is more than adequate for my needs, a little more than I wanted to pay, but it's done, now I am looking for best advise on the control of this brushed DC motor which is 48 to 68 volt, still looking for cheap as chips costings

[john]

Depending on your budget you can reach out to people like https://www.voltsport.co.uk/ if you want a 'plug and play' motor inverter setup for various low voltages.

Something like this would do i believe: https://www.voltsport.co.uk/kits/kits-d ... t-10kW-48V

Depending on what your level of knowledge is on electronics / automotive wiring going with a proven solution from one source would be the safest / most effective solution (a lot less learning everything involved).

Thanks Tom, I did check out that site and they have quoted just short of £2000 for the 10kw set, this is not really the way I want to go, prefer 'cheap as chips' for the reasons previously given, anyway, this afternoon, I have purchased a second hand Agni motor, 8.5kw , and so now looking for a PWM in the order of 200 amps, 48 volts, I am also considering just 4 AGM batteries as a start, the weight of all this, less the IC engine, comes to around the same, any further thoughts please offer, as you can see, I am totally new to EV conversion, but need to get it right first time, I am OK with electrics but don't ask me what goes on inside a PWM

[john]

has anyone had experience of this PWM on Ebay - https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/200A-10-50V- ... 2402488747, not a bad price, if it works well

[muehlpower]

Would this be an Option?

http://www.eastgem.net/d7500-k-1.html