Outlander PHEV: EV range increase?

[X30]

Hi,
Does anyone know if it is possible and if it has been done already?
By adding similar cells in the trunk?
Replacing by totally different battery cells?
Thanks, BR, Xavier

[pemtek]

This is something I am working on using another outlander pack. Also looking at how to control another charger, I am hoping I can work out how to control the 3.7kw charger / dcdc by can bus.

Phil

[X30]

Hi Phil,
In the meantime, I have found a company converting cars from petrol to EV, using outlander batteries. They are not interested in my range extender project for the Outlander. They say there is a too small business potential.
But they use the outlander batteries and handle the charging and dc dc, etc.
They are located in Romania in Europe.
I could try to help you understand how they do it and if they can advise on your project.
If you want, send me your questions and specific information so that they can understand. Let see if they can help!
BR,
Xavier

[pemtek]

Hi Xavier,

If you can find out information about how to control the outlander dcdc / charger it will save me hours of can bus sniffing and testing I am sure.
Thanks
Phil

[nesto1972]

Hi X30!

I have done it with an extra pack on my Outlander and iam superhappy.now i go 120 km on pure EV(same voltage,84 ah cells Comes from Nissan 30Kwh)
So i can say ist very easy Installation only connect to rear Inverter put a fuse,contactor,and one Diode (for charging with OEM charger) thats all you Need!
There is no Need for PCb or hacking the CAN !!!!


Remember:
The simplest Things are the best.
Coming back with schematics and photos of mine.

Cheers
Thomas

[arber333]

Usually those cars use 2 DC contactors to break connection with car. Only then charger can work.
How did you solve that?
I have an Ampera and i connected inverter cable into Y. The other fork will go to another Ampera battery, in effect doubling the range. Its just that i see a problem in connecting 2nd battery and controlling SOC of both packs when contactors are off...
How did you manage to connect your extender?
What do the batteries do when regen or quick acceleration happen?

tnx

Arber

[nesto1972]

The extention Battery is connected with a contactor wich will active after 2sec. after Ignitation.
For charging:
If i switch off IGN. also contactor of extention Batt. is off.
I Bridge the contactor with a strong Diode so charging current goes over Diode !!!!

[arber333]

Good idea.

Myself i am intending to put battery to 2 connectors. First small one with large resistor on it i will connect first to equalize charge if needed. Second will be 175A or more rated. Also another 350A fuse and contactor.
I intend to connect through main emgcy disconnect. I will drill two larger holes in plastic and use brass bolts from underside to connect to +/- points on battery. After bolts i will connect 35mm2 welding cable to the back where main connector will be.
I am thinking of using emgcy disconnects interlock lines to shutoff 2nd contactor in case something happens, ie. first responder pulls the plug....

I am asking how both batteries coexist together. Are there any current jumps or anomalies?
Also how do you communicate with the SOC meter? Did you have to convince it or is it just working by itself?

tnx

[nesto1972]

The two Batterys coexist by voltage!Even if the voltage is not the same +/- 5 Volts you can connect via contactor.No current jumps no sparks!
In my case the main battery deliver 1/3 and extention battery 2/3 driving current and this effect ofcourse the SOC meter!
In Fakt you will benefit the mileage of one cycle ,also you extened battery life.
Rgs.
Thomas

[pemtek]

I have done basically the same with outlander batteries in the back of a leaf it works fine. I used a simp BMS modified for 2 can bus to control the 2 extra packs to make up the 96 cells.

I am still battling the outlander on board charger to try to control it with can.

Phil

[pemtek]

Hi Nesto, are the terminals in the rear inverter connected during Chademo charging?

Thanks

Phil

[arber333]

Hi Nesto, are the terminals in the rear inverter connected during Chademo charging?

Thanks

Phil

I belive they are since there is a diode across rear contactor, therefore everything that flows to main battery then flows to the rear across the diode.

I still cant belive it is that simple. But i think caution with rear battery is needed. I think i will keep second battery well below full SOC when charging.

[pemtek]

I know inside the battery pack there is a separate contactor from the Chademo connector, so I was wondering if the main contactor would be active. I think if you used the wire going to the onboard charger from the main contactor you would be able to get rid of the diode.

The wire colour into the charger is yellow but I cannot remember the pin number of the plug. This wire pulls high but I think you will need a reverse diode across the coil.

Phil

[pemtek]

Ok, bit of an update, the main battery contactor is closed during Chademo charging as I just went to check the rear inverter had power to it while charging.

[X30]

@Thomas (nesto1972), very interesting, thanks!
Do you have a specific business or have you done this « on your own, in your garage »?
Your solution seems to be fantastic... and I have the feeling you can dismantle it quite easily in case you go for a long trip (and need the full trunk), exact?
Thanks, BR, Xavier

[tmotion]

Hi,
Does anyone know if it is possible and if it has been done already?
By adding similar cells in the trunk?
Replacing by totally different battery cells?
Thanks, BR, Xavier

This has been done by Vtune (polish company). They replaced the LEV40 cells by I think a custom build 18650 pack in the same enclosure. They ended up with 19.9kwh, and they say with a bit more effort they can do 22kwh.

LEV40 cells are not super space efficient so there is for sure room for improvement.

The 19.9 pack gave them about 80-90km range.


Another interesting project could be removing the entire outlander ice and use that space for batteries. Make it a full ev

[nesto1972]

@Thomas (nesto1972), very interesting, thanks!
Do you have a specific business or have you done this « on your own, in your garage »?
Your solution seems to be fantastic... and I have the feeling you can dismantle it quite easily in case you go for a long trip (and need the full trunk), exact?
Thanks, BR, Xavier

No just a specific interest!:)
Yes the battery can be removed in minutes with a small engine lifter!

[nesto1972]

Ok, bit of an update, the main battery contactor is closed during Chademo charging as I just went to check the rear inverter had power to it while charging.

Yes Contactor is closed while charging or fast charging.Ensure that the diode is strong enough to last the charging current.
I burned down a 40 A diode in 5 minutes with chademo charging!!!( it is DC current,so be aware from the limits of the diode)
A god value is 3x stronger then max.charging current.

[nesto1972]

Hi Nesto, are the terminals in the rear inverter connected during Chademo charging?

Thanks

Phil

Yes you can but ensure that diode is strong enough!
Otherwise you will end up like me ,you came back to car ,open the door and a huge white cloud comes of your car:)
So there is nothing to do for chademo charging but sadly its limited to 16 kw output or 50 Amps!!!
anyone an idea how to blast this limitation away?

[X30]

So it is possible and has been done. Thanks for all messages and inputs!
Who would know and recommend a pro (in Europe) who could do this and also evaluate the possibility to convert an Outlander PHEV into a full EV?
I am actually investing into EV conversion (converting a Boxster) and I am willing to invest also into this Outlander project.
Please let me know, on this post or directly on xtrentesaux@yahoo.fr
Thanks!

[nesto1972]

Here is an instant range extender for Mitsubishi Outlander Phev Owners.
Loooking forward who knows this!
Ok so the is a calculated Battery condition value wich will DECREASE with mileage the calculated Capacity of the battery!

For example my Outlander had 150.000 km a value of 72.9 percent PMC!
Now do this:
1.plug to charge the car
2.Switch on ignition.(not ACC)
3.disconnect 12 Volt minus of the Battery!
4.disconnect Charger plug from car.(all went dark)
5.Connect 12 Volt to Battery.(all come on incl. EV Error in display)
6.Switch IGN. off and on! (no error anymore)
7.Check your PMC percent value (99.9)

Now the BMU calculates like a new Battery ,so check the cellvoltages when it comes close to empty!

[pemtek]

I tried it on mine and it works well, I have also monitored the lowest cell voltage when it was showing empty and it didn't drop below 3.71 volts on any cell.

Phil

[arber333]

Hi Johannes this thread would be better suited inside Outlander master thread also.

Thank you

[arber333]

The extention Battery is connected with a contactor wich will active after 2sec. after Ignitation.
For charging:
If i switch off IGN. also contactor of extention Batt. is off.
I Bridge the contactor with a strong Diode so charging current goes over Diode !!!!

Hi

I am preparing to make my own Ampera extension in the same way you did it. Can you tell me what kind of diode did you use? What rating?
I have here one 150A 600V and one 300A 600V transistors. I intend to use its reveerse diode.

tnx

[arber333]

Hi X30!

I have done it with an extra pack on my Outlander and iam superhappy.now i go 120 km on pure EV(same voltage,84 ah cells Comes from Nissan 30Kwh)
So i can say ist very easy Installation only connect to rear Inverter put a fuse,contactor,and one Diode (for charging with OEM charger) thats all you Need!
There is no Need for PCb or hacking the CAN !!!!

Remember:
The simplest Things are the best.
Coming back with schematics and photos of mine.

Cheers
Thomas

Hi Thomas

I know you are not afraid to play with your car .
Is it possible to grab CAN bus stream from your Outlander PHEV while you turn ON the heater? I would need to find out which CAN msg ID and data is neccessary to run the heater but i dont have Outlander available.

tnx

Arber