Isolation Monitor - Suggestions?

[Zieg]

Any progress on any of the various fronts here? It's looking more and more like the SCCA is going to be requiring these for all forms of racing.

[tom91]

Any progress on any of the various fronts here? It's looking more and more like the SCCA is going to be requiring these for all forms of racing.

I do not think the SCCA will accept a homebrew solution for a system this critical. So best bett would be to figure out if there is a American distributor of a Bender unit.

[RetroZero]

I will get back to Bender this week. They asked for a description of my project and possible opportunities in the future.... I guess they want to see if its worth their while or if this is a one off. I will incorporate the ISA shunt as the alternative and reference. That way I can compare "apples with apples"

[Zieg]

During my research (googling part numbers, really) I found a lot of references to the Bender ISO165/175 units being used in Formula SAE. Some teams said they were sponsored by Bender and provided new hardware each season.

I then found an ISO165C-1 on ebay for $400 CAD and decided to take a chance in it. Should be here by month's end.

There are also some other Bender isometers on ebay, including the ISO-CHA-425 which looks like it could work, but it requires 24vdc to operate. Other versions of the same thing seem to be available for 12vdc, but on the HV side they are only rated to 300v.

[nickyivyca]

I found a stash of IR155-3210 for sale for cheap on Ebay.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/196329086628
This seems to be the same base hardware as the IR155-3204 but sold for chargers instead of vehicles.

I've found a couple different datasheets for the 3210:
https://pamir.com/wp-content/uploads/20 ... 012821.pdf
https://www.bender.de/fileadmin/content ... D_XXEN.pdf

It's hard to tell if the differences are just in certifications and such, or if there's actually a configuration difference to the device. The second 3210 datasheet mentions the 'AMP' monitoring as opposed to 'DCP' measurement, but then the first 3210 datasheet mentions both so maybe they're interchangeable. The 3204 datasheet I have only mentions DCP.

[nickyivyca]

Comparing the 3210 to a 3204, the only difference is the missing ferrite bead (I think that's what that is) on the bottom left corner of the board, and the label applied to the brick. (The Nano-fits on the 3204 were a manual modification and not how it originally came, borrowed board from my old FSAE team to compare)

I'm guessing D,10 and A,1 are the different parameters. If the 1 is the Fave number then that would mean the 3210 is just more reactive than the 3204.

Plan to install in my 914 as part of the next round of upgrades, we'll see how soon that happens.

[thomaa]

PXL_20240430_050329480.jpg
Comparing the 3210 to a 3204, the only difference is the missing ferrite bead (I think that's what that is) on the bottom left corner of the board, and the label applied to the brick. (The Nano-fits on the 3204 were a manual modification and not how it originally came, borrowed board from my old FSAE team to compare)

I'm guessing D,10 and A,1 are the different parameters. If the 1 is the Fave number then that would mean the 3210 is just more reactive than the 3204.
image.png

Plan to install in my 914 as part of the next round of upgrades, we'll see how soon that happens.

Did you end up installing the 3120? I'm currently looking for a solution for isolation monitoring and this seems the most accessible.

[LRBen]

I found a Chinese firm doing these: https://cqbluejay.com/product/gyid-ev-dmd/

I can't remember the exact price but I think it was around £150 including shipping to the UK. But that was for five of them.


Edit: Added actual words.

[muehlpower]

The new Isabellenhütte IVT 3 pro has an integrated insulation monitor. At around €300, it is cheaper than anything from Bender! Has anyone already used it, or does anyone know the CAN messages?

[muehlpower]

I ordered a sensor from DigiKey. It seems that I will get the necessary CAN data from Isabellenhütten.

[modellfan]

Weired. The older one had the can protocol pretty sure in the data sheet. Looks very promising. Inkl 6 voltage channels and wh counting.

Let me know , if you have the real datasheet and need support implementing it in zombieVCU.

[muehlpower]

need support implementing it in zombieVCU

Thanks for the offer, but I don't use a Zombie. I currently have the IVT-S installed with 3-volt inputs. The new one I ordered also only has 3. The Wh and Ah measurement restarts when the supply voltage is switched off. To use it effectively, you must therefore always leave the IVT connected to the power supply or save the value in the VCU, for example, before switching it off.

[muehlpower]

Warning!!

Isabellenhütten has informed me that the sensor sold by DigiKey does not measure insulation. The type designation must have an “R” after the “I,” e.g., “IVT-3-1K-U6-IR-CAN2-12.”

[jrbe]

Have you found the "R" version anywhere?

[modellfan]

According to the datasheet just the pro version can Donte Isolation Monitoring

[muehlpower]

According to the data sheet, there is no Pro version “without” insulation measurement. Likewise, there is no Base version “with” voltage measurement. DigiKey offers both the Base and Pro versions, from which I concluded that the Pro version available there has insulation measurement. However, this is not the case. Pre-production samples can be requested from Isabellenhütten.

Based on this description, there appear to be three versions!

[modellfan]

Do you have a full datasheet? The datasheet I can find does not show the dimensions and the CAN Messages. I need to check, if I can squeeze it in my Contactor Box.

[muehlpower]

I have now received and installed my IVT Pro with insulation monitoring. The mounting dimensions are the same as for the old IVT with 1k (2 holes), but as you can see from the data sheet, the housing is significantly larger. The connectors are on the side, and I have not yet found a source for them. I printed a suitable cover right away. The CAN messages are different from the old ones. The configuration can be changed by customers via UDS security access level 1, whatever that means. I use it out of the box The insulation measurement can be switched on and off via CAN to avoid interference with external insulation measurements during DC charging. There are no switching outputs. Output is exclusively via CAN. A Ctrl. CAN message with CRC must be sent continuously, otherwise the insulation measurement stops. The other functions also work without it. I also found an insulation fault right away. A radiator hose was in contact with an exposed part of the HV+ cable, causing the resistance to drop below 1kOhm. After I fitted a plastic cap to the contact, the value rose to 3600kOhm. The internal sensor warning threshold is 1000kOhm and the alarm threshold is 400kOhm. For my 400V system, 200kOhm AC and 40kOhm DC would be sufficient after the R100. With an additional 2 MOhm resistor, the system measured perfectly and my total value dropped to 1700 kOhm, which would still be sufficient. HV+ and HV- are also output separately, making it possible to identify which line is causing the problem.

[evMacGyver]

This is interesting product. Did you get yours from some distributor or is it sample from Isabellenhütten?

[jrbe]

Are the can specs openly available for the pro version? Something you're able to share?

[muehlpower]

Its a sample from isabellenhütte. I can't share the dbc file since I have a NDA with them. But the SOP happend already, so it will be soon available.